General Category - Pearson Owners and Enthusiasts > Boat Handling
New to 323, quick question.
Dulcinea:
Ed:
Selene just gave you the best advice you're ever gonna get. Get a good surveyor, a SAMS or NAMS guy that you are paying and have him give you an honest viewpoint on this. This could be a small problem or a really big one and even small problems can run you into $1000's. By your own admission, you're in love with the boat, surfacing the possibility you're not looking at this objectively. Understand that there are other 323's out there without the ugly keel issue. None will be perfect, but personally this would bother me. If you have not bought this boat yet, and you really shouldn't have without a survey, I would hold off til you can get some professional advice. These boats are usually worth the investent in repowering, but if you're looking at that AND some structural issues that only a boat yard can fix, it can get real steep real fast. Good luck.
Nautilus:
Thanks to everyone!
Here's an update.
I dropped the deal on boat with the diesel because I'm not paying an addition $5k yard quoted bottom job on a vessel in fair condition.
Owner states he came down enough already originally with his asking price, so he is welcome to sell to someone else.
However, I have a line on another 323, this having the Atomic 4.
Though my intent was to go diesel for personal reasons, would Dolce_Vita give me performance estimates and why he stayed with the Atomic 4?
What are the arguments for the Atomic 4? (No flame wars please, just data lol)
Again, concerned with avg cruising speed, and now fuel consumption.
v/r
Ed
Dolce_Vita:
Nautilus Ed,
When we were first hunting for a P-323, we were only going to look at diesels. A number of friends convinved me that, if the rest of the boat met my needs and requirements, that I shouldn't dismiss it just because it has an A4.
They turned out to be right.
The A4 is a very well-supported engine, thanks largely to the efforts of Moyer Marine. Of the 40,000 originally built, 20,000 are still in service. And as of 2 years ago, Moyer is even casting new blocks, built right here in America. All parts are readily available. And there is a huge active user base on the Moyer Marine Forum. So when we found a boat that was in good condition, and well equiped, but with an original, un-rebuilt but well-running A4, we went for it, knowing that we could get parts and support, and even a fresh engine, if needed.
What I found was that the A4 is a dirt-simple, overbuilt, reliable beast that can be understood and kept running by an ordinary Joe with standard tools. It's based on 1940s-era tractor engine technology, but was designed from the ground up to be a sailboat engine. Keep it clean, feed it with oil & gas, and keep it from freezing, and it'll run for decades.
As it turned out, the PO had damaged it by improper winterizing the Winter before, but the damage was not apparent, missed by both myself and the specialist engine surveyor. Midway through our first season, without symptoms, it died beyond redemption with a cracked block! I did a lot of research on the possibility of repowering with a diesel, but determined that this was a LOT of work, as MANY systems are affected (fuel, electrical, controls, mounting, prop, shaft, v-drive, etc) and very expensive. The total, even with me doing some of the work, would approach what we paid for the boat. A rebuilt A4, on the other hand, would be a drop-in replacement. In an effort to trade money for time, I elected to buy a rebuilt short block from Moyer, and swap out the other parts from our first engine myself. I also took this opportunity to convert from raw water cooling to fresh water cooling, as this is the single best thing you can do for your engine (gas or diesel) to improve its longevity. My total cost, including almost $1000 for the fresh water cooling, was somewhere between $5000 and $6000.
So that's how I came to the A4 and why I stuck to it.
As for performance numbers, here's what I have.
After the rebuild, on flat water with no wind, I get a wide-open-throttle (WOT) performance of 3100 RPM and a little over 6.5 Knots. This is still under the boat's hull-speed of 7.04 kts, but I believe I'm still a little under-propped. I'm hoping to repitch the prop this spring.
But you don't really want to run there. It's not efficient and it's hard on things. Normally, I run between 2000 and 2400 rpm. At 2000 I'm doing 5 kts with no headwind. On the other hand, we've pushed into an 18 kt headwind and 3 - 5 ft seas on the nose, getting up to about 5 kts before the next wave would slam us down to 3.
Last summer, We did a 400 mile circumnavigation of the DelMarva Peninsula. There was little wind and we ended up motoring a large portion of the time. 71 hours over a one week period! Based on the engine hour meter and actual gallons burned, we averaged about 3/4 gallon per hour. With the P-323's large 30 gallon tank, this meant we were able to do the entire 140 NM offshore leg on less than a tank. Never even had to get into the jerry jugs we kept on deck. Others on the Moyer Marine forum report similar consumption rates when some effort has been made to tune the engine for efficiency.
Hope this helps. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know.
Nautilus:
Ed,
Thanks for the advice and data.
Agreed, not any one requirement (like the A4) is stopping me. I'm alright as long as I know what I'm getting into because I'd rather be aware of MY perceived "con's" rather than encountering "buyers remorse" after the fact.
My concerns are not so much the A4 itself (another vessel I looked at has a rebuilt A4), but rather the gas. I just have never been a fan of inboards using gas.
Murphy's Law is a clear and present danger in my life.
I once had a a diesel fuel leak from a bleeder screw for an entire 4 hour run home on board my Bristol. I had to babysit it the whole way to prevent the bilge from filling with diesel. I actually enjoyed a good cigar during it since all I was doing was constantly holding shop rags on the bleeder and wiping it. Other than looking like Han's the "Ghost" from the movie "Das Boot" and feeling like I was in Pink Floyd concert (ears ringing and being high from diesel fumes) I was no worse for wear and had a great story to tell. That sort of convinced me to stick with diesel.
Had I not noticed it, I would just have environmentally trashed Long Island Sound.
Had it been gas, well I don't want to think about it.
Safety aside, I know both diesel and gas have it's pro's and cons.
My current vessel burns about 1GPH just hitting hull speed at 6.3 kts. So 3/4 GPH average is not an issue.
Plus diesel is about a dollar more.
Like I said, not a show stopper, just a consideration.
Moving forward to view the boat!
Thanks!
Ed
Nautilus:
If you don't mind, other thoughts Ed........
Just stumbled across a post from you regarding safety on another repower post, food for thought. http://www.pearson323.com/forum/index.php?topic=40.0
Question is, you must have a backflame arrestor on the Carb, correct?
I have to check my CG Regs, and NY State regs too, but I do believe it's mandatory.
How long to you run the blowers before you turn her over?
Do you have an auto extinguishing system?
Lots of food for thought here!
I like those $$ you spoke of compared to the diesel.
The cheap $#*! in me lol.
Ed
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