General Category - Pearson Owners and Enthusiasts > Boat Handling

New to 323, quick question.

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Nautilus:
I stumbled across a 323 in my area that has potential for me.

The only question I have for you 323 owners is Engine HP/Displacement ratio.

Is the 23 HP Diesel adequate for this vessel?

I ask because I owned a Bristol 29.9, an 8900 lb vessel with the 15 HP inboard and was I lucky to average 4 kts SOG under power.

Granted most sailors are interested in sailing performance, I'm just as concerned about reserve power and long distance cruising under power.
23 HP appears to be just below Jack Horner's 2 Hp per 1,000 lbs of displacement rule of thumb guide to provide for adequate performance under power.

FWIW, when I took that Bristol  from the Atlantic into Lower/Upper Hudson bay and then up the NYC's East River and through Hell's gate, my knuckles were white for an extended period of time. Averaging 1 kt SOG on an outgoing tide underneath the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge for most of the night sucked. Hell's gate speaks for itself. So I like plenty of iron in my genny.

Hence this question.

Other than that, a serious long term love affair appears to be developing! She's seem's to fit my needs and may in fact be the last I ever own.


Thanks!

Ed

Dolce_Vita:
From one Ed to another, welcome to the forum!

I hope you find the 323 to your liking.  My wife and I love ours.  She's a great boat with a very seakindly behavior.  Not a go-fast machine, but a sturdy seaworthy boat with a very livable design for two cruisers.

When the 323 was originally designed, it came with a gasoline-powered Atomic-4 and a 2:1 v-drive.  With a proper prop attached, this combo could produce up to 30 HP, which is a reasonable amount (plus some margin!) for a 12,800 lb boat.  In my opinion, the 2-cylinder 23 HP Volvo MD11C that replaced it was marginally underpowered, and noisy.  The 2-cylinder design produces a lot of vibration.

By now (but YMMV!),  those MD11C's are reaching end-of-life and are too expensive to rebuild.  Many have been replaced with modern diesels, including Yanmar and Beta (a marinized Kubota tractor engine).  I like the Beta 25 or 28 as a candidate when repowering a P-323.  It's 3-cylinder design should be smoother and quieter, and its 25 HP output should be a good match for this boat.

Full disclosure: Ours came with an Atomic-4, and when the time came to replace it, I went back in with another Atomic-4.

EDIT: Post 100!

selene:
As another datapoint, mine was refitted with a Westerbeke 30B Three cylinder, which puts out about 27hp.  Plenty powerful.

Libations Too:
Nautilus Ed,

Welcome! Those who look carefully at the 323 usually come away with positive impressions. A few years back I ran across a Pacific Seacraft 31 or 32-footer at a boat show that was nearly identical to the 323 on paper but at the bank the Pacific Seacraft was 5 or 6 times the cost. It made me feel quite good about the 323.

My 323 has the Volvo and, with a clean bottom and good conditions, can get 6 knots at 1500-1800 RPM with the std. 3-blade cruising prop. At that RPM I can cruise at about 1/3 gallon fuel per hour. If I want to push to 2200 RPM or so I can get closer to hull speed but fuel consumption rises to about 1/2 gallon per hour...and she starts to squat a bit, which I have never considered very becoming in such an otherwise nice form. The MD11 is noisier than many and, being a two cylinder engine, does have its sweet spots in terms of vibration...but these attributes have never been problems for me.

My point with all of this is that if one is stemming a 4 or 5 knot tidal current (not uncommon in many places) a 32 ft displacement hull (regardless of who was the designer) will have trouble making very much more than a couple knots SOG (and I would expect even less from a 30-footer). Unless one goes to an ultra light hull form, the wetted area of any 32-footer will be comparable to the 323 and I would thus expect similar performance.

Where I have noticed the MD11 struggle a bit is when meeting larger, steep wind waves. The wave lifts the bow, tries to push it backwards, and generally slows the boat. The big 3-blade prop keeps taking the same bite and does a decent job of getting the boat back up to cruising speed but when the next wave comes along the whole dance step starts again. The shorter the wave period the more troublesome making headway becomes. Perhaps another few HP would be useful in such conditions but it would also be harder on the boat and crew (me) so I just take it as it comes and use the opportunity to hone my steering skills...

Dulcinea:
Welcome Ed.  Your question was "is a 23 HP diesel adequate"?  When I first bought my 1978 P323 it had the Volvo diesel, 2200 hours, rusty and real "suspicious looking", i.e., I didn't trust it.  But....it started, ran and seemed to be adequate in most conditions that first year.  The next year, 2012, I bit the bullet and had it repowered.  I went with a Beta engine from a guy named Joe Demers at Sound Marine Diesel in Connecticut.  Joe told me the 20HP Beta would push my boat to hull speed.  The 25HP model was essentially the same footprint, however, so for I think $600 more, I went with that one, with a two-blade prop.  The engine will accelerate to 3600 RPM, but I reach 6.5 knots at 1500 RPM and the thing is running so quietly you can barely hear it.  To my mind that verifies Joe's claim that the 20HP would have been "adequate".  Of course you know that bottom condition, prop, tides, weather, etc. all play a role in this question as well as does which diesel engine. 

As someone noted, if the boat you're looking at has the usual 30+ year-old MD11 and you plan on owning it for a few years, you will most likely repower the boat.  The new diesel technology is far superior to what we are used to seeing in older boats.  I know the Betas better than Yanmars or Westerbekes, but with the Beta you will have the option of 20HP, 25HP and even the 28HP will fit in that boat and has been installed.  I'm sure the others are equally good engines. 

Others may disagree, but as to the previous comment about these Volvos getting old and a bit long in the tooth, I would go so far as saying that if you're looking at a late70's-early 80's 323 with a Volvo MD11 and you don't want to (or can't afford to) repower in a few years, I wouldn't buy the boat.  The Volvos weren't the best engines to start with.  FWIW.
Dennis aboard Dulcinea

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