Author Topic: Fuel Gauge  (Read 13786 times)

selene

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Fuel Gauge
« on: September 02, 2014, 03:45:09 PM »
Anybody done any work on the fuel gauge on the top of the fuel tank?

Mine seems to work fine - the porthole in the cockpit deck is scratched, but you can still see through it (just).  However, the lens over the gauge itself is getting increasingly opaque (see photo), and it is very difficult to see the reading.  From the photos (my phone won't focus well 4 inches away), t looks like the lens (plastic?) is held in place with two screws - but it'll be awkward getting to them, and before I started mucking around I thought I'd ask if anybody had played around in this area (e.g. while replacing a fuel tank).

I do keep a fuel log, but the fuel gauge is useful - if somewhat funky!

Tx

Sea Haven

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2014, 10:09:31 AM »
Selene,

Interesting issue regarding the bezel on your gauge. I'm NOT by know means an expert, but it looks like some water contamination made whatever some ferrous material (needle/springs/armatures??) rust. At least that's my first impression by looking at the photo.

So I'm not sure if it's feasible, much less warranted to just replace the bezel as opposed to replacing the gauge itself or even the whole unit. Which of course brings up its own set of issues or possiblities:

1-Gauge Replacement, OEM or Aftermarket? Who Manufactures or sells these things? Moeller Marine has complete Direct sight units, though you have to determine which size you need. They have just the Replacement Direct Site Gauge as well, but will it fit the unit that's installed? Maybe it's all universal, I haven't a clue. I've always been bitten by Murphy's Law in these situations, that's why I learned to keep careful records of Manufacturer's, Part No's, and even Vendors of what I purchase!

2: Replacement issues. Gas operated A4 owners such a myself have a bit more of a safety concern  than diesel owners. As an A4 owner I myself would find it worth seeking professional help, at least getting a quote. I'm sure it's easy enough to follow all the safety precautions, but then again is it worth my time ($$) to do it myself? Just a thought and quotes are usually free.

3: My Gauge isn't corroded like yours, and I do like the reliability of the mechanical gauge, but if it was and I was going to replace it, I would consider going with an electrical sending unit , such as a Moeller Reed Sending unit and electrical gauge mounted somewhere convenient in the cockpit. They're easy to install and you only need to know the depth of your tank. FWIW, on my previous boat, I had two (port/stbd) 12 Gal plastic Tempo Tanks installed in lockers which made reading the mechanical gauge a hassle. So I purchased and installed the straight "Reed Switch Sending Units" in each and ended up wiring them to a CAN Bus where I could read the fuel level as well as consumption rate on my GARMIN 540s. It was a sweet setup lol. It was real easy to do, but since the TEMPO's were portable, I easily removed them, drained them by filling my car (bonus!), and let them air dry until the fumes were gone before commencing work. That's my one real worry should I have to do something on the Pearson. Drain and wait I suppose. It's not the gas itself that bothers me, just the Stoichiometric Air-Fuel Ratio of an empty tank!

My port on the cockpit deck is cloudy as well. I'm looking to see if I can get an appropriate size disc of Gorilla or Dragontail glass to replace it. I'm also thinking of possibly removing it altogether and replacing it with a similar sized Screw Out Deck Plate / Inspection Port. Just a twist and I see it clear as day!

Finally, I record my fuel usage as well. But I'm curious how others do it. My gauge is divided down to 16ths. So what do makes sense to record in? Percentage? 16th's? 8th's? Quarters?? Or convert to gallons like 9/16 = 16.88 gallons in my case. Or record as 68%? Or even just round down to 1/2? I suppose that's a matter of preference. FWIW, I convert to gallons for the record as it's easier for me as a unit to work with.

Just some thinking out loud lol!

"Sub" Ed
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 10:17:25 AM by Sea Haven »

Alma

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 03:19:52 PM »
I replaced mine after 20 years... It is a dipstick made from a window shade wooden insert!

It is marked- PECK and ZILCH-
I never heard PECK as a reference for tank volume. I DO know what ZILCH means.

We ran the gasoline all the way down this spring on our shakedown cruise but didn't get to run out since just as we were around ZILCH we were entering an inlet and I didn't want to run out in those conditions. So I dumped five gallons in from a RED can. If the boat isn't completely still, fuel will splash against the stick and indicate fuel higher than actual tank level.

Overall I'm happy with the gauge stick- It performs flawlessly, doesn't create an extra hole in MONEL tank to leak, and it FLOATS!








Dolce_Vita

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2014, 05:36:37 PM »
I too use a wooden dipstick, with a notch carved in it for "full".

True, the batteries never die, but somebody sat on it's predecessor a couple of years ago and snapped it in two!
@(^.^)@  Ed
1977 P-323 #42 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

selene

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 11:30:48 AM »
Dipsticks are tried and proven; I like 'em.  But where is the hole you use for access?  Not in the middle of the tank, I am sure.  So I am reluctant to dill a new hold in my tank just for a dipstick!

<sigh> every time I knock something off my worklist, two items take it's place.  Looks like it'll be a busy winter!  Looks like I'll have to start taking that gauge apart.

Sea Haven

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 11:38:04 AM »
KISS principle!

I like!!! Had "the stick" on my Bristol which had the fill for the tank right in where my sight glass is in cockpit deck!!

Would never have considered it due to my gauge working!

So I take it you two replaced the sight glass with an access port as well as the gauge with some sort of screw on cap?

Wonder if I can get a cap that fits the same hole pattern as my gauge? Of course you still fuel from the fill on the starboard side?

I almost want to do it regardless of the condition of my gauge!!

Dolce_Vita

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 01:40:16 PM »
My fuel fill port is on the floor of the cockpit, right where your sight glass and gauge are, and not on the rail.  This is the way all the early 323's were built. 

It's a short, straight shot directly down to the bottom of the tank.
@(^.^)@  Ed
1977 P-323 #42 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Alma

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 08:12:59 PM »
'Nice to look down there with a flashlight and see how clean the E10 is keeping our
Monel gas tanks! I use water resistant grease on the threads of the gas fill cap to insure cockpit water (or beer) doesn't find it's way into the fuel tank. Less IS more! Why do you think Shaw added the complexity of a side fill, sight glass and mechanical gauge?

If I had that setup I'd look into an electric gauge. As long as the simplicity of a dipstick is lost why not have the luxury of a panel mounted gauge? Tempo makes adjustable senders. The only hitch is the bolt circle on the tank. That is usually a standard.


Sea Haven

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 12:19:52 PM »
Gas owners,

This begs another question.

Where does the inlet of your bilge blower exhaust hose reside?

My PO had it on the STBD side of the Engine, just aft of the STBD Cockpit drain. Basically almost directly below the A4 Carb. Never moved it from there...but.....

Since gas is heavier than air, and being told we should have at the lowest bilge point practical, I assume one would want it at least as far as in the region of the aft Bilge Access cover to draw air from the bilge.

Now I have yet to smell gas when I fire her up, so I may be in the realm of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but I am curious as to what other A4 owners do on our Pearson.

"Sub" Ed

Alma

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 07:11:31 PM »
Right- at the lowest part of the bilge under the ladder. I have the other inlet hose breathing right near my alternator. The idea being cold air on the alternator.

Since I do not have a vent on my PYI dripless shaft collar I need to "burp" it each time I use the boat. The seawater's organisms die in there and the gas displaces the water that cools the bellows... I'm pleased there is a concrete reason to check the engine, shaft, and oil each time I use the boat. At that time and gas smell would be obvious. I rarely use my blower. But I try always to take a whiff before starting the engine. We all have 30 year old non-alcohol resistant fuel components. It is a good idea to keep a "nose" out...

Chelsea

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2014, 04:31:58 PM »
How such a simple question can go on... it's fun.

On Chelsea I opened the port last summer and took out the gauge.  I cleaned the glass on it and reset it into the tank.  It's a simple magnetic unit with a cork on the end in the tank.  As the fuel lowers, so does the cork.  As it goes down, the magnetic force lessons and the gauge needle goes from full to empty.  When I opened the tank I had run the blower for a while. I disconnected shore power, set the 12v to off and said a prayer.  Once the gauge was out, I covered/stuffed the open hole with a plug and put up a no smoking sign on the dock head.... I'm still here.

Now I can read it well but the cover plate on mine as well was well marred from years of shoes and who knows what.  Using "Cleaner Wax" and some #7 rubbing compound I buffed out the surface of the cover plate to a wonderful shine.  Also washed off the bottom of it and the top of the gauge cover.  No sight problems reading the gauge.
Full is to port, 3/4 is forward. 1/2 is starboard and if it's toward the helm, get ready to swim with flippers for propulsion.  I carry 30 gallons of fuel (A4-gas) when full and burn 1.1 gal per hour at 7 knots no matter the wind... well with a 15 knot headwind it's 1.3 gal per hour.. hope this helps.
Lauri
s/v Chelsea

selene

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 11:38:55 PM »
An update for those who are interested...

The fuel gauge on my tank was made by Rochester Gauges.  The current replacement is model is 5323s01792, and seems to be a drop-in replacement. About $12.  Which is great news!

Moeller Marine (thanks Ed for the clue!) uses Rochester gauges in their units.

I removed and inspected the old gauge.  It is fluid--filled, but over time had accumulated an air bubble; and the plastic cover had yellowed over time (See? We may be sunny in California all year round, but it's not all good - there is a downside....:-)), and there was rust forming.  The new unit is all-plastic; we'll see how long it lasts.

If anybody has a similar problem the gauge can be ordered at www.e-components.net.

Sea Haven

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 04:19:32 PM »
I ended up replacing mine with their Conversion Capsule.
Converts fuel level reading from standard direct site gauge to electric dash mounted gauge (33-240 Ohms's).
Moeller Marine Product # 035760-10

What's nice I can still make out the mechanical reading, but I also see it on my new home made Gauge Panel. That's a piece of .040" thk anodized aluminum, oversized to cover an old depth gauge hole. Thinking of sticking a Pearson or Universal logo in the empty area.

FWIW, I replaced ALL the gauges, completely rewired my A4 with new wiring, and converted from points to EI. New 55 Amp Alternator, new starter Added a Merlin Power Systems Smartgauge and Smartbank, as well as all cabin lighting to LED's. 200AH House Bank along with a separate starter battery. That was just electrical! New Garhaur Traveller and new Mack Sails to boot!!
It's been a hell of an off season.

"Sub" Ed

Here's my new panel:

Alma

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2015, 01:00:48 PM »
Nice! Volts And Amps- Belt and Suspenders...

Where did you buy that little tachymeter???? I want one!

Sea Haven

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Re: Fuel Gauge
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2015, 03:20:41 PM »
Alma,

That, and the Fuel Gauge are VDO Gauges. The rest are ISSPRO, which I prefer. However....I like the finer graduations on the VDO Fuel gauge.

The following are ALL part Numbers.......

Gauges
Vendor: Partdeal.com
 ISSPRO - Ammeter Gauge, 60 Volt DC, 2-1/16 inches - R86661
 ISSPRO - Voltmeter Gauge, Color-coded, 12VDC, 2-1/16in - R8660
 ISSPRO - Electrical Oil Pressure Gauge, 80psi, 2-1/16in - R8620
 ISSPRO - Oil Pressure Sender, 80 PSI - R8916
 ISSPRO - GAUGE ELEC WATER TEMP 100-240 TA - R8650
 ISSPRO - SENDER WATER TEMP 100-240 TA 1/4" NPT - R8922
Vendor: Summit Racing Equipment
 VDO Vision Series Tachometers 333156
 VDO Vision Black Fuel Gauge - 301-105B - Use with 240-33 Ohm Sender
Vendor: Amazon.com
 Moeller Marine Conversion Capsule 035760-10

Alarms:
Vendor: Defender
 Cole Hersee - Engine Warning Kit - M-40177 BP (tossed the pitiful buzzer)
Vendor: floydbell.com
 Low Oil: TLHC-88R-930-Q Panel Mount 9-30 VDC  Red Indicator w/Continuous Alarm
 Engine Coolant:  TLHW-88B-930-QF Panel Mount 9-30 VDC  Blue Indicator w/Fast Warble Alarm
 Raw Water Inlet Flow: TLHB-88G-930-QF Panel Mount 9-30 VDC  Green Indicator w/Fast Beep Alarm
 High Bilge Alarm (Not shown, located below): TLHO-88Y-930-Q Panel Mount 9-30 VDC  Yellow Indicator w/WHOOP Alarm
Vendor: Moyer Marine
 Raw Water Flow Sensor - KTAS_01_563
 
The Floyd Turbolight alarms may not be for everyone because they are a bit pricey. However they are waterproof (IP68 Rating & NEMA 4X) LED's in the range of 93db. I will hear them while sleeping in the vberth when someone else is at the helm. The colors are selected because they make sense and since the LP Oil alarm always sounds when the engine starts, the red doesn't affect the night vision. Blue for water temp, green for sea water, these shouldn't affect night vision too much, but at that time your dealing with engine issues anyway. They all have separate, distinctive tones. The yellow high bilge alarm located in the galley above the chill box and will light the cabin at night to prevent running into anything while panicking lol. It's hooked up to the high capacity 2000 gph bilge pump located on the mast step level of the bilge. The 500 gph scavenger pump of course being located at the lowest point.

Works for me.

"Sub" Ed