Messages

1

P323 / Re: Cabin top handrails

« on: August 04, 2017, 08:13:56 PM »

I just did mine, check out the details. www.selds.com/Pearson323

Look for the handrail post.

Mike Scott
SV Aine, Hull 330

2

Sails and Canvas / Re: Upholstery fabric website update

« on: October 16, 2015, 11:03:12 AM »

toto website has changed from what was posted a few years ago. It is totofabrics.com now

3

General Discussion / Re: Annapolis Sailboat Show

« on: October 16, 2015, 08:11:41 AM »

AARG... I should have looked at the website earlier, I drove up from NC and walked the show. It was interesting to see the 'universal' design changes that every manufacturer seems to be moving to. This was the first time in 10 years, I used to go every other year when I kept my boat on the Chesapeake.

4

New Member Introductions / Re: Introduction / New Owner

« on: September 29, 2015, 09:44:26 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Richard, you have already been incredibly helpful to me with all the info you have posted. I have noticed that many of the owners list and publish a diary of repairs to their boats. I had never considered that before, but I thought it might be a good way to consolidate all the information and events in one place. So I have stated keeping track of everything I find and how I go about fixing, repairing, or replacing it. The posting can be found at www.selds.com/Pearson323.

5

Electrical Systems & Electronics / Re: MD11C Alternator

« on: September 21, 2015, 07:52:59 AM »

I bought a 100 amps as well. I found that the OEM tensioning bracket will not fit correctly as is. The new alternator has a slightly bigger body diameter (they say it is still a DELCO 10SI type) and the stock alternator bracket for the MD11 does not have a radiused slot to follow the arc of the mounting, it has a straight slot. Must have been a production cost issue, or bad engineering. I figure I have two options, the first one is to loosen up bracket and rotate the bracket a bit higher and put a small twist in the arm to get the straight slot on the same plane as the mounting hole. If that fails, I'll have to remove the bracket, take some measurements and design a new bracket with the correct arc slot, get my metal guy to CNC cut it, two bends at the office and it should be an exact fit.

6

New Member Introductions / Introduction / New Owner

« on: September 16, 2015, 10:13:10 AM »

I probably should have posted this about two months ago, but I was so focused on getting the 323 home so that I could stop the flow of water into the boat that it just never entered my head to introduce myself. I purchased Hull #330 from a gentleman in NC, I live in New Bern, NC. I refurbish sailboats as a hobby, (ya, I know I'm insane... honey I bought another one... clearly so does my wife), and have focused on Pearsons for the last few. The first time I sailed a P28, I was amazed at how balanced the helm was, how stable the boat was, and how well the hulls were put together. I just finished the P28 and was looking for another project to start, I looked at a P30, P303, P33, P35 and the P323, I read the history of Pearson Yacht company and found it fascinating. I absolutely fell in love with the 323, I was like slipping on a pair of loafer you have owned for years... everything felt right. My boat had been pretty much abandoned by the owner for 3 to 5 years, not intentionally he had health issues so I can understand. Much of the wood forward of the main solon and some in the solon is rotted and every opening in the boat leaked and not just drips, but water flowed in. It was almost to the point where it might not be economically salvageable, and that just made me sad. I just could not stand to see this beauty die, so I bought it. Since bringing it home, new hatches, rebuild all the fixed ports, repacked the stuffing box, new mast boot, and new opening ports have slowed the flow of water to a trickle (just the anchor locker now). I can start to replace the teak woodwork now. I have a complete wood workshop and have been building furniture for years, so this should be the easy part. Anyway, I'm probably going to keep this one for myself when I done. Good to join you all.

7

Ports & Hatches / Re: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports

« on: September 11, 2015, 08:33:11 AM »

Final thoughts and tips:

Until you remove the ports and disassemble the frames you don't really know what you have, or what a previous owner or contractor has done. In my case not knowing how the 323 was originally assembled I had thought that the deck and liner port opening had been fiber-glassed together at the factory. Some parts of the openings looked like Richard's pictures with a gap between the deck and liner, while others were a single layer of fiberglass. When I measured the frame gap, deck to liner opening, it was just over 1/2", but where I only had a single layer of fiberglass it only measured .300", so no seal pressure when the frame was completely tightened. The reality was that in a previous attempt to fix the leaking ports someone had bonded the deck and liner together with a silicone sealant and clamped them together alone the ends and corners. It was so tight that you could not see a seam. I found a small gap mid-opening and hammered a putty knife in between the desk and liner. Once separated from one-in-other the gap returned, and was a miraculous 1/2" just like the designer originally planned.

Tip: Use an oscillating multi-tool with the triangular Velcro sanding head, cut a piece of scotch bright to fit. Soak with MEK and use to clean the deck side sealing area. Removes just about everything and leaves a completely clean surface for the sealant.
 
Tip: Get new frame screws, even the least little bit of round over makes it much more difficult. Screws are #8 x 1/2" sheet metal, available with black heads. At the frame ends I used 5/8" for a little bit longer grip and pull.

Tip: Hand start the screws, if you find the original threads life is much easier. If you are going to use Butyl for your frame to deck sealant... tighten, let sit for a day or two, retighten, let sit, etc. etc.

Tip: (Maybe the most important) If you are doing this work when it is 95 degrees in the shade and 98% RH. Put a dry t-shirt in the drink cooler, at the end of the day strip off the soaked one and put on the now cool and dry one. It is almost as good as taking a shower. Sit in the cockpit, drink in hand and admire your work.

So far: No runs, no drips, on errors. Getting closer to a dry boat everyday, now on to the opening ports.

8

Ports & Hatches / Re: Resealing and Rebedding Fixed Ports

« on: September 06, 2015, 02:50:15 PM »

Last FYIs,

I finished rebuilding all 4 ports today using the Catalina Direct kit and Richard's example. Tip #1: To get the right amount of window gasket I would dry fit around the window glass and once I got to the beginning I would cut it 1/8 to 3/16 longer. When I completed the final assembly the gasket fit was perfect. Doing the first window was a complete mess and took forever, way too much caulk. Some of my frame sets had bleed holes for the excess caulking to exit and some didn't. The first one didn't... which made it the most difficult. By the time I got to the fourth one, I had adjust the caulking to the right amount, and there was very little mess. When I finished the fourth one it looked like I had been doing this procedure for years. Tip #2: I had the frames on two pipe clamps with 2 x 4s at each end to slowly draw the frame together. Sometimes the ends of the frames would not line up when drawn together, so I would use a third pipe clamp and cross clamp on top of the frames so I could move the clamps together. For example if the top frame was too far to the left to meet the bottom of the frame. One end of the cross clamp would go on the left outside of the top frame and the other end of the cross clamp would go on the right outside of the bottom frame. Turning the clamp would draw the two frames together, worked like a champ. Tip #3: 1 Qt of mineral spirits and 3 rolls of paper towels was the right amount for all four ports.

I do have to say, the Catalina Direct gaskets and caulking (Dow 795) makes a real nice finished fixed port. If I didn't do all the work, I'd swear they were new.

9

Ports & Hatches / Re: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports

« on: September 06, 2015, 02:48:58 PM »

Last FYIs,

I finished rebuilding all 4 ports today using the Catalina Direct kit and Richard's example. Tip #1: To get the right amount of window gasket I would dry fit around the window glass and once I got to the beginning I would cut it 1/8 to 3/16 longer. When I completed the final assembly the gasket fit was perfect. Doing the first window was a complete mess and took forever, way too much caulk. Some of my frame sets had bleed holes for the excess caulking to exit and some didn't. The first one didn't... which made it the most difficult. By the time I got to the fourth one, I had adjust the caulking to the right amount, and there was very little mess. When I finished the fourth one it looked like I had been doing this procedure for years. Tip #2: I had the frames on two pipe clamps with 2 x 4s at each end to slowly draw the frame together. Sometimes the ends of the frames would not line up when drawn together, so I would use a third pipe clamp and cross clamp on top of the frames so I could move the clamps together. For example if the top frame was too far to the left to meet the bottom of the frame. One end of the cross clamp would go on the left outside of the top frame and the other end of the cross clamp would go on the right outside of the bottom frame. Turning the clamp would draw the two frames together, worked like a champ. Tip #3: 1 Qt of mineral spirits and 3 rolls of paper towels was the right amount for all four ports.

I do have to say, the Catalina Direct gaskets and caulking (Dow 795) makes a real nice finished fixed port. If I didn't do all the work, I'd swear they were new.

10

Ports & Hatches / Re: Resealing and Rebedding Fixed Ports

« on: September 04, 2015, 09:08:57 PM »

Richard,
 
One new revaluation; I re-read your reassembly procedure and started by dry fitting one of my windows. On the first one, in one of the corners the window gasket slid all the way down into the channel on both sides of the window. This can only happen when the channel is so wide that no pressure is exerted on the gasket to glass interface. I measured the width of the window channel on all the frames and it varies widely, it should be relative consistent. I will be adjusting the channel internal wall to obtain a consistent channel width for the full length of the frame. This should help reduce the reliance on liquid sealant.

11

Ports & Hatches / Re: Resealing and Rebedding Fixed Ports

« on: September 04, 2015, 09:36:41 AM »

This is the first I've heard about different parts of the boat being hand layup vs. chopped mat, but it makes sense that that is what they would be doing. Thank goodness they had the foresight and discipline to hand lay the hull and deck, not every boat builder did.

On my fixed ports I'd estimate that 30% of the leaking came from the frame to deck joint and that was because the inner pressure frame bends up and away at the curves so no clamping.  The remaining 70% of leakage came through the window channel. On just one single window I could fill a large bowl (10 to 12 oz) with water from a single downpour.

We will see how it goes, I got a text from the powder coater and the frames will be ready this afternoon. So I'll be re-assembling and installing them this weekend, followed by the new NFM opening ports which arrived yesterday. Can't wait to finally have a dry boat.

12

Ports & Hatches / Re: Resealing and Rebedding Fixed Ports

« on: September 03, 2015, 07:55:15 AM »

Richard,

If your total hull thickness is at 1/2" or better the existing frame would be perfect for your boat. I will say I'm little surprised that there is that much difference between our boats, but that is what I have.

On a slightly different question... before we get to that I want to make sure that you and all the people who have posted what to expect in reworking these fixed ports has been a God send to me, so thanks for that. I don't want you to get the idea that I'm finding fault with anything as I ask questions or propose different strategies. I'm an old engineer by training and profession, I always see what isn't working or might work better as I move from project to project.

Now the slightly different question... on the ports I removed I noticed that the window glass gasket had slit itself at the 90 degree bends and each side of the gasket had pulled itself up onto either side of the window glass, removing itself from the channel and providing absolutely no seal. This tells me that the window glass gasket shrinks with age. This seems to be confirmed by the filler gasket in the empty channel which had also shrunk on all the window frames. In your explanation of re-gasketing and replacing the glass into the frame channel, I remember you saying that you needed to stretch the gasket around the corners to get it into the channel. I'm not at this point yet, but I'm wondering about the shrinking. I'm wondering if we should actually be compressing the gasket in the corners instead of stretching it. Just wondering out loud.

13

Ports & Hatches / Re: Resealing and Rebedding Fixed Ports

« on: September 02, 2015, 09:21:34 PM »

The limiting factor is the actual depth (thickness) of the frame. When I take both sides of the frame (inner and outer) and have them butt up against each other that is where I got the .575" measurement. Regardless of screw length they can get any closer to each other. Hence the reason for filling the gap with something else.

14

Ports & Hatches / Re: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports

« on: September 02, 2015, 10:06:31 AM »

Next FYI for anyone doing this. Headline... removing sealants.

My ports had no less then 6 different types of sealant, including the original. Most of the common sealants have been covered in other posting, so I'll stick to the 'out of the ordinary' stuff I found (God willing you will never find this on anything). As I originally said there was this stuff that looked like rubber cement, it was clear, stringy, and a complete bugger to try to remove. In places it was so sticky that you could only peel small portion at a time, like 1/16 or 1/8 of a inch. I spent an hour and a half and completed 12.5" It had very poor gap filling capabilities, that is why I'm thinking it was an adhesive. It kind of built a stringy honey comb structure between the two surfaces. After an hour a half and a looming deadline to get the frames powder coated, I went to the garage looking for some chemical help... based on how it looked and acted I was guessing that is was some kind of poly product. I had a pint of special thinner from a barrier coat project about 15 years ago, splashed some on and within minutes it turned the sticky mess into another sticky mess, a liquid adhesive mess, which I was able to just wipe away. A couple of wipes with new thinner and the metal was bare.

My best way to remove RTV or Silicone, which was everywhere in the frames. The only way I found that was economical was to try to undermine whatever was under the RTV. So soaking in Lacquer Thinner or Xylene seemed to looser the underlying paint and made mechanical removal a much easier process, I also dipped some scotch bright in lacquer thinner and ran it through the channels, this loosened the small almost transparent slivers. Respirator, gloves and outside was where I did this.

15

Ports & Hatches / Re: Resealing and Rebedding Fixed Ports

« on: September 02, 2015, 09:41:53 AM »

I would agree with all that has been said. I'm already trying to lesson the variations in total thickness with mahogany wood shims (I have a home wood shop, I like to build furniture for a hobby)and thickened epoxy.

The idea of the trim ring is as follows: With the existing frame there is still .200" of gap when the frame is fully tightened, so we are relying on sealant to fill that gap, and .200" is a lot of gap. We are replying on tightening the inner frame to provide clamping pressure so the outside frame is sealed against the deck side wall. The smaller we make the gap the less movement, the less total reliance on a sealant. Remember, when the frame is completely clamped down, with no sealant there is a .200" air gap. If we lessened that gap to say 50 thousandths ( .050") I think that we will see a better long term outcome. Picture it, Inside wall, trim ring, inner frame. Now the inner frame is pushing on the trim ring as we tighten the screws, that has to be a better situation then before, even if there is variations in wall thickness. Besides, you will get a cute little teak halo around the fixed ports... How's that from trying to convince you? Your smiling right? I am...

Did I explain it any better, still have doubts?