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Messages - selene

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New Member Introductions / Re: New Member/Owner
« on: October 29, 2022, 06:29:53 PM »
Good luck with the purchase! I hope it goes smoothly.

My purchase criteria were very similar to yours, with one addendum: Here in the CA Bay Area is can get a bit windy, so I wanted a boat with a seakindly motion. Like you, I often single hand; in summer time, frequently in the 20-25kn range, and Selene has always kept me safe and dry. I was out a couple of years back, in 35+kn. She handled it well, I was comfortable at the helm. The rather aging dodger suffered a bit, though :-)

Every boat is a compromise - I must admit she's not the fastest on a beat. And heaving to is more like lying ahull. But she was not bought as a racer, and beam reaching definitely holds her own. A solid, comfortable boat.

Deck Mounted Hardware / Re: 323 rear pulpit
« on: June 30, 2022, 06:18:03 PM »
I redid all if mine. Removed the stanchions (labelled first!). Used a dremel router bit to remove some of the core, leaving the screw holes in the fiberglass "skin" untouched. Filled with epoxy. Redrilled the holes, bedded the stanchions using butyl tape.

So far, no leaks; but I did have to go around and re-tighten the screws after around 6 months, once things settled.

The most time consuming part was getting around to doing the work! The P323 has great access, so it was fairly quick and straightforward.

Hi Michael!

My old vang system was a block and lines. I guess people were stronger in the 1980s, as I found that setup almost impossible to trim (as an aside, I also hated the traveller setup for the same reason). So personally, I find the Garhauer setup much easier to use and adjust. And now I have adjustments other than "on" and "off"!

Personally, I have removed the topping lift and have had no issues (except the sail not longer hits the topping lift when tacking).

I have slab reefing, and the vang (when released) keeps the boom high enough for me to reef without an issue.

As ever, your mileage may vary...and I am always learning new stuff, and so would welcome feedback or diverse opinions on any of these points!

BTW, Alma's comments about insulation are well made (I used plastic from milk bottles). And, of course, lanocote or similar on the screws. Let's keep these boats sailing another 4o years :-)

I installed mine in 2014, so all I have are some (cryptic) notes and my dodgy memory to rely upon! And I am not an engineer...

Basically - talk to Garhauer (Mark?). They know their stuff and will give the best advice.

The good news - I sent bent wire mast profiles, exchanged a couple of emails with Mark, and what I got back was exactly what I requested, built to the usual Garhauer high quality standard. Very happy with it.

I did ask for the plates on the mast to be made 2" larger than usual, to wrap further around the mast; Mark agreed to do this. I don't know if it was necessary, but a nearby boat had a (non-Garhauer) rigid vang torn out of the mast, which to be honest freaked me out! I was thinking of how you would repair a compromised mast like that...anyhow, I reckoned instead of relying solely on the threads of the bolts to hold the vang in place, the bolts themselves would be stronger. It's shocking to me how thin our masts are, and how soft the Al...

One issue with the P323 is that the available height between the deck plate and boom does not result in an optimal vang angle/placement. I did an analysis of the vang angle on other boats, seeing vangs typically in the 34-38 degree range - so the worked with Mark to get the optimal dimensions. My results:

Boom Angle:      30º
Upper tube:      30"
Inner tube:      24.5"
Total uncompressed   52 1/4"   
Total Compressed   48"      

I discussed this with Mark, and he explained that this length is as short as it can be - even though the angle is not optimal.  I validated this, in that compressing the vang shortens it by 4 " instead of my target of 6" - but make it any smaller and it will not be able to compress. This gives a boom vang angle of 32º when compressed - not ideal, but adequate.

I hope this helps!

General Discussion / Re: Standing rigging
« on: March 20, 2022, 03:49:00 AM »
FWIW, I pulled my chainplates and sent them to Garhauer to use as templates. As always, they did a great job, at a reasonable price.

Mine looked fine, but after 40 years, I thought better safe than sorry. If you can see rust I would not hesitate!

Mast and Spar Issues / Re: Spreader Failure
« on: March 02, 2022, 06:26:20 PM »
Ed - yeah, it's a puzzler. The rig was tight, I tune it every year. I think I may have bumped it during a raft-up, which cracked the base, and then under the wind load it parted. I'm just hoping the RigRite parts will fit, otherwise I'll have to get the new bases fabricated.

Greg - I'll let you know the cost when all is done. Right now there is a ~4 week lead time on new rigging, as the weather has been mild and many people are out sailing! And the SF Bay is not a great place to benchmark prices, as EVERYTHING here seems to cost a premium over other parts of the US.

I was also very interested in Dyneema, but nobody local deals with it - there is an outfit in LA ( that specialises in Dyneema standing rigging. They recommend a product called "Dyneema Dux", apparently heat treated to reduce any initial stretching. I have to say, the product looks very good - lightweight, easy to repair, and super strong.

Mast and Spar Issues / Spreader Failure
« on: February 23, 2022, 09:33:04 PM »
Okay, this is a weird one. Out sailing - brisk, 18kn (reefed). Nice sail for a few hours, then large bang.

Connection between spreader and mast broke. Oddly - not sure yet, mast is being pulled as we speak - the spreader on the other side seems also to be showing a crack in the same place. I was on a starboard tack, and it was the starboard spreader, so it would have been under pressure. But...

Fortunately it was the spreader that I fly my burgees on, so I was able to retrieve the spreader itself from ocean using the burgee line. And some quick maneuvering prevented more damage to the rig - as coincidence would have it, I was on my way to the yard to replace the $tanding rigging (it's been 20 years, so seems like time).


- Anybody else experienced this kind of failure?

- Any idea where to get a new pair of spreader-mast connectors?

Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Jib Car replacement
« on: September 10, 2021, 12:39:25 PM »
Yes, looks similar to my setup, except that I don't have a cheek block just a regular block slightly further aft, which I use for the spin sheets.

Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Jib Car replacement
« on: August 24, 2021, 12:19:52 PM »
I actually installed a pair of turning blocks aft of the cleat. I use these to control the spinnaker.

Basically the spinnaker sheets go though a block on the track (so I can adjust the angle of attack), then back to the turning blocks near the stern, and then across the cockpit to the winch on the other (windward) side.

Although this configuration sounds awkward, it works well - I installed it after looking at a number of different boats with a similar setup, as Selene was not originally rigged for a spinnaker. It means that the person flying the kite is on the windward side of the boat, opposite the kite, where they have good visibility and can manage things more easily.

It also separates out the jib sheets and the kite sheets. Sometimes I blow the tack, other times I unfurl the jib to blanket the kite (asym) before socking it. The person flying the kite is on the windward side, unfurling the jib is on the leeward side. Has to be done with care to ensure the furler does not interfere with the spin halyard, though. I got into a right snarl once...

Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Jib Car replacement
« on: August 18, 2021, 10:16:21 AM »
I also repaired the sheaves on mine, but then replaced the two primaries with new cars from Garhauer. Internal bearings = lower friction, wellimade and reasonably priced. I keep the older ones as backups.

Ports & Hatches / Re: Another Ports Saga
« on: July 27, 2021, 08:26:56 PM »
Yes, I am also a big fan of Butyl. And thanks Ed for such a comprehensive report - I am lousy at taking photos, but your record is both interesting and informative! I wish you dry ports for many years to come!

New Member Introductions / Re: new member introduction
« on: July 27, 2021, 08:24:40 PM »
Cool story - it is great to have the boat kept "in the family". Enjoy!

Ports & Hatches / Re: Another Ports Saga
« on: June 16, 2021, 02:25:42 AM »
Not so much suggestions, as sympathy.

On the plus side, the NFM ports are great. I hope that you are as happy with yours as I have been with mine.
Like you, I filled the space between inner liner and cabintop with thickened epoxy, routed it out, and then bedded all the portlights (including the fixed ports) with butyl. I have to say, I am not sure the small machine screws holding the fixed ports in place are the most robust solution; the NFM design seems a lot more robust, but that is what we have...

As with you, there was no smooth insertion of the gaskets for me. I got sealant everywhere.

I ended up using two clamps to gently compress the glass, gasket and frame together, but as you said, I stretched the gasket. I pair a lot of attention tot he inside track (where the gasket seatc) to ensure it was totally smooth and clear of burrs. Liberal application of the sealant at my second attempt did help somewhat as it acted as a lubricant (which is why I got it everywhere), but I was still not overly happy with the result. Having said that, despite some stretching of the gaskets, the ports have remained watertight for ~6 years, and the gasket has shown no sign of deterioration.

Good luck, and please let us know what solution you end up with!

Sails and Canvas / Re: New to flying a spinnaker
« on: June 16, 2021, 02:12:36 AM »
I am probably  not going to be much help, as I only have one pair of winches (no secondaries) and fly asym. But a kite is a sweet sail with the right wind angle - and strength!

FWIW, I ended up drilling holes in the boat (!) to mount a couple of turning blocks on each side towards the stern. I also added another couple of blocks on the jib track (Garhauer). The blocks were positioned to cross over to the winch on the opposite side - so the working sheet comes down to the leeward track block, back to the stern turning block, and across to the winch on the windward side. This normally works well for an asym as I sit on the windward side controlling the kite.

Hope this helps (somewhat)

General Discussion / Re: Need help finding a leak
« on: June 16, 2021, 02:04:02 AM »
What Ed said. I had the same issue. Replaced the foot pump, leak went away. Hopefully your experience will be similar!

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