1
New Member Introductions / Re: New 323 Owner
« on: August 20, 2023, 07:51:10 PM »
Congratulations on your new boat - it sounds like quite a project, but the 323 has good, solid bones. You can bring her back to life.
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2
For Sale and Wanted / Re: Prop
« on: June 25, 2023, 12:40:01 PM »
Selene's original propeller was 3 bladed, marked 13 x 9 1/2. 1.25" on 1.125" shaft.
We replaced it with a 15x9 maxprop. Working well so far (and we are faster under sail - difficult to measure precisely, but I would put it between a 0.2 and 0.4kn advantage. And a feathering prop is cool :-)
Backing into a slip is a challenge for us too. The maxprop makes it somewhat easier (as the blades reverse orientation, so it works as well in reverse as forwards), but I think the main issues we all tend to have are due to the keel length, and especially the skeg, which disrupts the water flow over the rudder.
p
We replaced it with a 15x9 maxprop. Working well so far (and we are faster under sail - difficult to measure precisely, but I would put it between a 0.2 and 0.4kn advantage. And a feathering prop is cool :-)
Backing into a slip is a challenge for us too. The maxprop makes it somewhat easier (as the blades reverse orientation, so it works as well in reverse as forwards), but I think the main issues we all tend to have are due to the keel length, and especially the skeg, which disrupts the water flow over the rudder.
p
3
Engine and Drive Train / Re: Is there a special type of diesel fuel for the Volvo MD11c engine?
« on: June 04, 2023, 08:32:53 PM »
AFAIK there are two main types of diesel.
The stuff sold in gas stations, which works fine. Also called on-road or clear diesel. It's what I have been using in my Westerbeke for 10+ years.
"red dye" diesel. Very similar to the regular diesel, but cheaper, as it is tax-exempt. If you put it into your car and it is discovered, you may get a fine. But in your boat it is legal.
There is also #2 diesel, normally used in long-distance trucks, and biodiesel. #2 diesel (I am told) will work fine, but has a lower cetol rating and so will be more difficult to start, especially in lower temperatures.
I have no experience with biodiesel.
One other tip - you may want to consider a fuel additive. Depending on how long you leave fuel in the boar, some algae will happily start consuming the fuel (!), and some stabilisers also improve starting. Personally I use biobor JF - but I am no expert!
The stuff sold in gas stations, which works fine. Also called on-road or clear diesel. It's what I have been using in my Westerbeke for 10+ years.
"red dye" diesel. Very similar to the regular diesel, but cheaper, as it is tax-exempt. If you put it into your car and it is discovered, you may get a fine. But in your boat it is legal.
There is also #2 diesel, normally used in long-distance trucks, and biodiesel. #2 diesel (I am told) will work fine, but has a lower cetol rating and so will be more difficult to start, especially in lower temperatures.
I have no experience with biodiesel.
One other tip - you may want to consider a fuel additive. Depending on how long you leave fuel in the boar, some algae will happily start consuming the fuel (!), and some stabilisers also improve starting. Personally I use biobor JF - but I am no expert!
4
General Discussion / Re: Pearson Builder's Plate
« on: April 18, 2023, 07:57:55 PM »
Have a look at this thread: https://www.pearson323.com/forum/index.php/topic,1157.msg4627.html#msg4627
I'd guess that your hull is 008...if Ed is right (as he probably is)
PEA = Pearson
92 = model number, 37-2
008 = hull number
L7 = June? Not clear about the 7
88 = 1988
I'd guess that your hull is 008...if Ed is right (as he probably is)
PEA = Pearson
92 = model number, 37-2
008 = hull number
L7 = June? Not clear about the 7
88 = 1988
5
Cruising / Re: Circumnavigation in a 323
« on: April 03, 2023, 09:15:37 PM »
Wow. Thanks for this - I met Austin back in 2012; very nice guy, he had the slip opposite mine for a while, before he set off to Hawai'i. We lost touch around then; I know that he was unsure whether distance cruising was for him after that voyage...seems like he made that decision!
The former owner had made a number of interesting mods to the boat; as an example, he modified the chart table to give fill access to the (wasted) space below - see image. And in the bilge, the grey water tank was moved forward, opening up the entire space under the hatch - and it is a huge space without that grey water tank!
He also pushed out the anchor platform to install a baby stay in the forepeak - sadly I don't have a good photo of that.
It's great to see him - and the boat - having traveled so far.
The former owner had made a number of interesting mods to the boat; as an example, he modified the chart table to give fill access to the (wasted) space below - see image. And in the bilge, the grey water tank was moved forward, opening up the entire space under the hatch - and it is a huge space without that grey water tank!
He also pushed out the anchor platform to install a baby stay in the forepeak - sadly I don't have a good photo of that.
It's great to see him - and the boat - having traveled so far.
6
Boat Handling / Re: P323 Boatspeed
« on: February 18, 2023, 12:17:10 PM »
Hi David. I claim no great expertise in this area...the Navionics chart was I look on as interesting, but less accurate than the speed chart which I consistently use to check if my trim is good. I find it useful and fairly accurate.
The 110 degrees (55 degrees) pointing ability is also, in my experience, broadly accurate.
Why all the caveats? Well, I sail in the SF Bay; depending on where/when you are, tidal currents can have a huge impact. Yesterday I had a 3kn ebb, which obviously impacts SOG and pointing ability. But I was making 9kn SOG :-)
Even if you take out that variable, local conditions - wave height, direction and frequency, even boat loading - can all affect speed and pointing. As can the cut and age (stiffness) of the sails - older sails with some stretch hurt pointing.
I have been experimenting with rig tension (it is extraordinary to me how "bendy" out boat is as you tension the rig!). I * think* that with a well-tuned rig, and new-ish sails, pointing can get to around 50 degrees - forestay tension in particular seems important. But the shallow keel and the inability to bring the jib in closer than the shrouds probably limits the P323 pointing ability.
So - a bit long-winded, but in summary - as is often the case with boats - many variables involved, but the speed table seems to be pretty good (for me!)
The 110 degrees (55 degrees) pointing ability is also, in my experience, broadly accurate.
Why all the caveats? Well, I sail in the SF Bay; depending on where/when you are, tidal currents can have a huge impact. Yesterday I had a 3kn ebb, which obviously impacts SOG and pointing ability. But I was making 9kn SOG :-)
Even if you take out that variable, local conditions - wave height, direction and frequency, even boat loading - can all affect speed and pointing. As can the cut and age (stiffness) of the sails - older sails with some stretch hurt pointing.
I have been experimenting with rig tension (it is extraordinary to me how "bendy" out boat is as you tension the rig!). I * think* that with a well-tuned rig, and new-ish sails, pointing can get to around 50 degrees - forestay tension in particular seems important. But the shallow keel and the inability to bring the jib in closer than the shrouds probably limits the P323 pointing ability.
So - a bit long-winded, but in summary - as is often the case with boats - many variables involved, but the speed table seems to be pretty good (for me!)
7
New Member Introductions / Re: New Owner of Pearson 323 in Minnesota
« on: January 04, 2023, 12:18:06 PM »
Welcome! And congratulations on your new boat.
Somebody better versed in the HIN will chip in, I am sure, but your hull number/boat number seems unusually high!
I have hull #212, and my HIN is PEA58212M80A
So:
PEA = Pearson
58 = Model (323 1976-81)
212 = Hull Number
M80 = Model Year (1980)
A = Build Month (August)
Could an extra 1 have slipped in? I noticed that there is a 1979 hull #163 in the Pearson 323 registry (https://www.pearson323.com/pearson-323-owners-registry.html).
Somebody better versed in the HIN will chip in, I am sure, but your hull number/boat number seems unusually high!
I have hull #212, and my HIN is PEA58212M80A
So:
PEA = Pearson
58 = Model (323 1976-81)
212 = Hull Number
M80 = Model Year (1980)
A = Build Month (August)
Could an extra 1 have slipped in? I noticed that there is a 1979 hull #163 in the Pearson 323 registry (https://www.pearson323.com/pearson-323-owners-registry.html).
8
New Member Introductions / Re: New Member/Owner
« on: October 29, 2022, 06:29:53 PM »
Good luck with the purchase! I hope it goes smoothly.
My purchase criteria were very similar to yours, with one addendum: Here in the CA Bay Area is can get a bit windy, so I wanted a boat with a seakindly motion. Like you, I often single hand; in summer time, frequently in the 20-25kn range, and Selene has always kept me safe and dry. I was out a couple of years back, in 35+kn. She handled it well, I was comfortable at the helm. The rather aging dodger suffered a bit, though :-)
Every boat is a compromise - I must admit she's not the fastest on a beat. And heaving to is more like lying ahull. But she was not bought as a racer, and beam reaching definitely holds her own. A solid, comfortable boat.
My purchase criteria were very similar to yours, with one addendum: Here in the CA Bay Area is can get a bit windy, so I wanted a boat with a seakindly motion. Like you, I often single hand; in summer time, frequently in the 20-25kn range, and Selene has always kept me safe and dry. I was out a couple of years back, in 35+kn. She handled it well, I was comfortable at the helm. The rather aging dodger suffered a bit, though :-)
Every boat is a compromise - I must admit she's not the fastest on a beat. And heaving to is more like lying ahull. But she was not bought as a racer, and beam reaching definitely holds her own. A solid, comfortable boat.
9
Deck Mounted Hardware / Re: 323 rear pulpit
« on: June 30, 2022, 06:18:03 PM »
I redid all if mine. Removed the stanchions (labelled first!). Used a dremel router bit to remove some of the core, leaving the screw holes in the fiberglass "skin" untouched. Filled with epoxy. Redrilled the holes, bedded the stanchions using butyl tape.
So far, no leaks; but I did have to go around and re-tighten the screws after around 6 months, once things settled.
The most time consuming part was getting around to doing the work! The P323 has great access, so it was fairly quick and straightforward.
So far, no leaks; but I did have to go around and re-tighten the screws after around 6 months, once things settled.
The most time consuming part was getting around to doing the work! The P323 has great access, so it was fairly quick and straightforward.
10
Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Garhauer Rigid Vang.
« on: June 02, 2022, 04:52:30 PM »
Hi Michael!
My old vang system was a block and lines. I guess people were stronger in the 1980s, as I found that setup almost impossible to trim (as an aside, I also hated the traveller setup for the same reason). So personally, I find the Garhauer setup much easier to use and adjust. And now I have adjustments other than "on" and "off"!
Personally, I have removed the topping lift and have had no issues (except the sail not longer hits the topping lift when tacking).
I have slab reefing, and the vang (when released) keeps the boom high enough for me to reef without an issue.
As ever, your mileage may vary...and I am always learning new stuff, and so would welcome feedback or diverse opinions on any of these points!
BTW, Alma's comments about insulation are well made (I used plastic from milk bottles). And, of course, lanocote or similar on the screws. Let's keep these boats sailing another 4o years :-)
My old vang system was a block and lines. I guess people were stronger in the 1980s, as I found that setup almost impossible to trim (as an aside, I also hated the traveller setup for the same reason). So personally, I find the Garhauer setup much easier to use and adjust. And now I have adjustments other than "on" and "off"!
Personally, I have removed the topping lift and have had no issues (except the sail not longer hits the topping lift when tacking).
I have slab reefing, and the vang (when released) keeps the boom high enough for me to reef without an issue.
As ever, your mileage may vary...and I am always learning new stuff, and so would welcome feedback or diverse opinions on any of these points!
BTW, Alma's comments about insulation are well made (I used plastic from milk bottles). And, of course, lanocote or similar on the screws. Let's keep these boats sailing another 4o years :-)
11
Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Garhauer Rigid Vang.
« on: May 29, 2022, 04:07:46 AM »
I installed mine in 2014, so all I have are some (cryptic) notes and my dodgy memory to rely upon! And I am not an engineer...
Basically - talk to Garhauer (Mark?). They know their stuff and will give the best advice.
The good news - I sent bent wire mast profiles, exchanged a couple of emails with Mark, and what I got back was exactly what I requested, built to the usual Garhauer high quality standard. Very happy with it.
I did ask for the plates on the mast to be made 2" larger than usual, to wrap further around the mast; Mark agreed to do this. I don't know if it was necessary, but a nearby boat had a (non-Garhauer) rigid vang torn out of the mast, which to be honest freaked me out! I was thinking of how you would repair a compromised mast like that...anyhow, I reckoned instead of relying solely on the threads of the bolts to hold the vang in place, the bolts themselves would be stronger. It's shocking to me how thin our masts are, and how soft the Al...
One issue with the P323 is that the available height between the deck plate and boom does not result in an optimal vang angle/placement. I did an analysis of the vang angle on other boats, seeing vangs typically in the 34-38 degree range - so the worked with Mark to get the optimal dimensions. My results:
Boom Angle: 30º
Upper tube: 30"
Inner tube: 24.5"
Total uncompressed 52 1/4"
Total Compressed 48"
I discussed this with Mark, and he explained that this length is as short as it can be - even though the angle is not optimal. I validated this, in that compressing the vang shortens it by 4 " instead of my target of 6" - but make it any smaller and it will not be able to compress. This gives a boom vang angle of 32º when compressed - not ideal, but adequate.
I hope this helps!
Basically - talk to Garhauer (Mark?). They know their stuff and will give the best advice.
The good news - I sent bent wire mast profiles, exchanged a couple of emails with Mark, and what I got back was exactly what I requested, built to the usual Garhauer high quality standard. Very happy with it.
I did ask for the plates on the mast to be made 2" larger than usual, to wrap further around the mast; Mark agreed to do this. I don't know if it was necessary, but a nearby boat had a (non-Garhauer) rigid vang torn out of the mast, which to be honest freaked me out! I was thinking of how you would repair a compromised mast like that...anyhow, I reckoned instead of relying solely on the threads of the bolts to hold the vang in place, the bolts themselves would be stronger. It's shocking to me how thin our masts are, and how soft the Al...
One issue with the P323 is that the available height between the deck plate and boom does not result in an optimal vang angle/placement. I did an analysis of the vang angle on other boats, seeing vangs typically in the 34-38 degree range - so the worked with Mark to get the optimal dimensions. My results:
Boom Angle: 30º
Upper tube: 30"
Inner tube: 24.5"
Total uncompressed 52 1/4"
Total Compressed 48"
I discussed this with Mark, and he explained that this length is as short as it can be - even though the angle is not optimal. I validated this, in that compressing the vang shortens it by 4 " instead of my target of 6" - but make it any smaller and it will not be able to compress. This gives a boom vang angle of 32º when compressed - not ideal, but adequate.
I hope this helps!
12
General Discussion / Re: Standing rigging
« on: March 20, 2022, 03:49:00 AM »
FWIW, I pulled my chainplates and sent them to Garhauer to use as templates. As always, they did a great job, at a reasonable price.
Mine looked fine, but after 40 years, I thought better safe than sorry. If you can see rust I would not hesitate!
Mine looked fine, but after 40 years, I thought better safe than sorry. If you can see rust I would not hesitate!
13
Mast and Spar Issues / Re: Spreader Failure
« on: March 02, 2022, 06:26:20 PM »
Ed - yeah, it's a puzzler. The rig was tight, I tune it every year. I think I may have bumped it during a raft-up, which cracked the base, and then under the wind load it parted. I'm just hoping the RigRite parts will fit, otherwise I'll have to get the new bases fabricated.
Greg - I'll let you know the cost when all is done. Right now there is a ~4 week lead time on new rigging, as the weather has been mild and many people are out sailing! And the SF Bay is not a great place to benchmark prices, as EVERYTHING here seems to cost a premium over other parts of the US.
I was also very interested in Dyneema, but nobody local deals with it - there is an outfit in LA (https://www.colligomarine.com/) that specialises in Dyneema standing rigging. They recommend a product called "Dyneema Dux", apparently heat treated to reduce any initial stretching. I have to say, the product looks very good - lightweight, easy to repair, and super strong.
Greg - I'll let you know the cost when all is done. Right now there is a ~4 week lead time on new rigging, as the weather has been mild and many people are out sailing! And the SF Bay is not a great place to benchmark prices, as EVERYTHING here seems to cost a premium over other parts of the US.
I was also very interested in Dyneema, but nobody local deals with it - there is an outfit in LA (https://www.colligomarine.com/) that specialises in Dyneema standing rigging. They recommend a product called "Dyneema Dux", apparently heat treated to reduce any initial stretching. I have to say, the product looks very good - lightweight, easy to repair, and super strong.
14
Mast and Spar Issues / Spreader Failure
« on: February 23, 2022, 09:33:04 PM »
Okay, this is a weird one. Out sailing - brisk, 18kn (reefed). Nice sail for a few hours, then large bang.
Connection between spreader and mast broke. Oddly - not sure yet, mast is being pulled as we speak - the spreader on the other side seems also to be showing a crack in the same place. I was on a starboard tack, and it was the starboard spreader, so it would have been under pressure. But...
Fortunately it was the spreader that I fly my burgees on, so I was able to retrieve the spreader itself from ocean using the burgee line. And some quick maneuvering prevented more damage to the rig - as coincidence would have it, I was on my way to the yard to replace the $tanding rigging (it's been 20 years, so seems like time).
So:
- Anybody else experienced this kind of failure?
- Any idea where to get a new pair of spreader-mast connectors?
Connection between spreader and mast broke. Oddly - not sure yet, mast is being pulled as we speak - the spreader on the other side seems also to be showing a crack in the same place. I was on a starboard tack, and it was the starboard spreader, so it would have been under pressure. But...
Fortunately it was the spreader that I fly my burgees on, so I was able to retrieve the spreader itself from ocean using the burgee line. And some quick maneuvering prevented more damage to the rig - as coincidence would have it, I was on my way to the yard to replace the $tanding rigging (it's been 20 years, so seems like time).
So:
- Anybody else experienced this kind of failure?
- Any idea where to get a new pair of spreader-mast connectors?
15
Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Jib Car replacement
« on: September 10, 2021, 12:39:25 PM »
Yes, looks similar to my setup, except that I don't have a cheek block just a regular block slightly further aft, which I use for the spin sheets.