1
Sails and Canvas / Re: loose or fixed foot
« on: March 24, 2024, 11:16:16 AM »
Loose foot. Better shape for different outhaul tensions - plus (imho) easier to set/douse. I love my full batten loose foot main!
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2
Electrical Systems & Electronics / P323 Main Fuse
« on: February 13, 2024, 01:00:34 PM »
Hoping somebody can help...
Upgrading electrics in preparation for LiPO4, and better switching than 1-2-both. In my way is the main DC fuse. It has a big plastic cover over it - unfortunately wedged behind the water heater, so cannot be accessed/removed nondestructively. I therefore cannot see the original fuse rating (50,000 amps AC does not help!).
Does anybody have an idea of the correct fuse size for DC Main? I am assuming it is equivalent to a Class T fuse, and therefore needed in addition to the standard BlueSea 30A breaker.
Upgrading electrics in preparation for LiPO4, and better switching than 1-2-both. In my way is the main DC fuse. It has a big plastic cover over it - unfortunately wedged behind the water heater, so cannot be accessed/removed nondestructively. I therefore cannot see the original fuse rating (50,000 amps AC does not help!).
Does anybody have an idea of the correct fuse size for DC Main? I am assuming it is equivalent to a Class T fuse, and therefore needed in addition to the standard BlueSea 30A breaker.
3
Engine and Drive Train / Re: Starter Battery
« on: February 06, 2024, 12:28:55 PM »
Thanks, it is as I thought. Like I said, my plan is to move to LiPO4 in two stages: first to set up a more futureproof wiring/charging and starter battery, and then - then the lead/acid batteries die - move to Lithium.
The main reason why is that is quite expensive to move direct to Lithium. The batteries are expensive, but it is the electronics, specifically the new voltage regulator and charger, that really bump up the price...so doing it in one go is rather expensive!
The main reason why is that is quite expensive to move direct to Lithium. The batteries are expensive, but it is the electronics, specifically the new voltage regulator and charger, that really bump up the price...so doing it in one go is rather expensive!
4
Engine and Drive Train / Starter Battery
« on: February 01, 2024, 08:02:02 PM »
I'm finally starting the project to add a starter battery to Selene. I was simply going to use a G27 battery, but apparently my engine (Westerbeke 30BThree) only needs 190 CCA. So I was wondering...maybe a G24? or even smaller?
What do you have?
After setting up the new starter batter, I can link the 2xG28 @~100ah each, so I'll have a small but robust house bank. Plan is to use a Victron Orion charger between the two banks; I could use a basic BlueSeas ACR, but it I eventually want to move to LiPO4, the Orion seems a more futureproof choice.
Thoughts welcome!
What do you have?
After setting up the new starter batter, I can link the 2xG28 @~100ah each, so I'll have a small but robust house bank. Plan is to use a Victron Orion charger between the two banks; I could use a basic BlueSeas ACR, but it I eventually want to move to LiPO4, the Orion seems a more futureproof choice.
Thoughts welcome!
5
New Member Introductions / Re: New 323 Owner
« on: August 20, 2023, 07:51:10 PM »
Congratulations on your new boat - it sounds like quite a project, but the 323 has good, solid bones. You can bring her back to life.
6
For Sale and Wanted / Re: Prop
« on: June 25, 2023, 12:40:01 PM »
Selene's original propeller was 3 bladed, marked 13 x 9 1/2. 1.25" on 1.125" shaft.
We replaced it with a 15x9 maxprop. Working well so far (and we are faster under sail - difficult to measure precisely, but I would put it between a 0.2 and 0.4kn advantage. And a feathering prop is cool :-)
Backing into a slip is a challenge for us too. The maxprop makes it somewhat easier (as the blades reverse orientation, so it works as well in reverse as forwards), but I think the main issues we all tend to have are due to the keel length, and especially the skeg, which disrupts the water flow over the rudder.
p
We replaced it with a 15x9 maxprop. Working well so far (and we are faster under sail - difficult to measure precisely, but I would put it between a 0.2 and 0.4kn advantage. And a feathering prop is cool :-)
Backing into a slip is a challenge for us too. The maxprop makes it somewhat easier (as the blades reverse orientation, so it works as well in reverse as forwards), but I think the main issues we all tend to have are due to the keel length, and especially the skeg, which disrupts the water flow over the rudder.
p
7
Engine and Drive Train / Re: Is there a special type of diesel fuel for the Volvo MD11c engine?
« on: June 04, 2023, 08:32:53 PM »
AFAIK there are two main types of diesel.
The stuff sold in gas stations, which works fine. Also called on-road or clear diesel. It's what I have been using in my Westerbeke for 10+ years.
"red dye" diesel. Very similar to the regular diesel, but cheaper, as it is tax-exempt. If you put it into your car and it is discovered, you may get a fine. But in your boat it is legal.
There is also #2 diesel, normally used in long-distance trucks, and biodiesel. #2 diesel (I am told) will work fine, but has a lower cetol rating and so will be more difficult to start, especially in lower temperatures.
I have no experience with biodiesel.
One other tip - you may want to consider a fuel additive. Depending on how long you leave fuel in the boar, some algae will happily start consuming the fuel (!), and some stabilisers also improve starting. Personally I use biobor JF - but I am no expert!
The stuff sold in gas stations, which works fine. Also called on-road or clear diesel. It's what I have been using in my Westerbeke for 10+ years.
"red dye" diesel. Very similar to the regular diesel, but cheaper, as it is tax-exempt. If you put it into your car and it is discovered, you may get a fine. But in your boat it is legal.
There is also #2 diesel, normally used in long-distance trucks, and biodiesel. #2 diesel (I am told) will work fine, but has a lower cetol rating and so will be more difficult to start, especially in lower temperatures.
I have no experience with biodiesel.
One other tip - you may want to consider a fuel additive. Depending on how long you leave fuel in the boar, some algae will happily start consuming the fuel (!), and some stabilisers also improve starting. Personally I use biobor JF - but I am no expert!
8
General Discussion / Re: Pearson Builder's Plate
« on: April 18, 2023, 07:57:55 PM »
Have a look at this thread: https://www.pearson323.com/forum/index.php/topic,1157.msg4627.html#msg4627
I'd guess that your hull is 008...if Ed is right (as he probably is)
PEA = Pearson
92 = model number, 37-2
008 = hull number
L7 = June? Not clear about the 7
88 = 1988
I'd guess that your hull is 008...if Ed is right (as he probably is)
PEA = Pearson
92 = model number, 37-2
008 = hull number
L7 = June? Not clear about the 7
88 = 1988
9
Cruising / Re: Circumnavigation in a 323
« on: April 03, 2023, 09:15:37 PM »
Wow. Thanks for this - I met Austin back in 2012; very nice guy, he had the slip opposite mine for a while, before he set off to Hawai'i. We lost touch around then; I know that he was unsure whether distance cruising was for him after that voyage...seems like he made that decision!
The former owner had made a number of interesting mods to the boat; as an example, he modified the chart table to give fill access to the (wasted) space below - see image. And in the bilge, the grey water tank was moved forward, opening up the entire space under the hatch - and it is a huge space without that grey water tank!
He also pushed out the anchor platform to install a baby stay in the forepeak - sadly I don't have a good photo of that.
It's great to see him - and the boat - having traveled so far.
The former owner had made a number of interesting mods to the boat; as an example, he modified the chart table to give fill access to the (wasted) space below - see image. And in the bilge, the grey water tank was moved forward, opening up the entire space under the hatch - and it is a huge space without that grey water tank!
He also pushed out the anchor platform to install a baby stay in the forepeak - sadly I don't have a good photo of that.
It's great to see him - and the boat - having traveled so far.
10
Boat Handling / Re: P323 Boatspeed
« on: February 18, 2023, 12:17:10 PM »
Hi David. I claim no great expertise in this area...the Navionics chart was I look on as interesting, but less accurate than the speed chart which I consistently use to check if my trim is good. I find it useful and fairly accurate.
The 110 degrees (55 degrees) pointing ability is also, in my experience, broadly accurate.
Why all the caveats? Well, I sail in the SF Bay; depending on where/when you are, tidal currents can have a huge impact. Yesterday I had a 3kn ebb, which obviously impacts SOG and pointing ability. But I was making 9kn SOG :-)
Even if you take out that variable, local conditions - wave height, direction and frequency, even boat loading - can all affect speed and pointing. As can the cut and age (stiffness) of the sails - older sails with some stretch hurt pointing.
I have been experimenting with rig tension (it is extraordinary to me how "bendy" out boat is as you tension the rig!). I * think* that with a well-tuned rig, and new-ish sails, pointing can get to around 50 degrees - forestay tension in particular seems important. But the shallow keel and the inability to bring the jib in closer than the shrouds probably limits the P323 pointing ability.
So - a bit long-winded, but in summary - as is often the case with boats - many variables involved, but the speed table seems to be pretty good (for me!)
The 110 degrees (55 degrees) pointing ability is also, in my experience, broadly accurate.
Why all the caveats? Well, I sail in the SF Bay; depending on where/when you are, tidal currents can have a huge impact. Yesterday I had a 3kn ebb, which obviously impacts SOG and pointing ability. But I was making 9kn SOG :-)
Even if you take out that variable, local conditions - wave height, direction and frequency, even boat loading - can all affect speed and pointing. As can the cut and age (stiffness) of the sails - older sails with some stretch hurt pointing.
I have been experimenting with rig tension (it is extraordinary to me how "bendy" out boat is as you tension the rig!). I * think* that with a well-tuned rig, and new-ish sails, pointing can get to around 50 degrees - forestay tension in particular seems important. But the shallow keel and the inability to bring the jib in closer than the shrouds probably limits the P323 pointing ability.
So - a bit long-winded, but in summary - as is often the case with boats - many variables involved, but the speed table seems to be pretty good (for me!)
11
New Member Introductions / Re: New Owner of Pearson 323 in Minnesota
« on: January 04, 2023, 12:18:06 PM »
Welcome! And congratulations on your new boat.
Somebody better versed in the HIN will chip in, I am sure, but your hull number/boat number seems unusually high!
I have hull #212, and my HIN is PEA58212M80A
So:
PEA = Pearson
58 = Model (323 1976-81)
212 = Hull Number
M80 = Model Year (1980)
A = Build Month (August)
Could an extra 1 have slipped in? I noticed that there is a 1979 hull #163 in the Pearson 323 registry (https://www.pearson323.com/pearson-323-owners-registry.html).
Somebody better versed in the HIN will chip in, I am sure, but your hull number/boat number seems unusually high!
I have hull #212, and my HIN is PEA58212M80A
So:
PEA = Pearson
58 = Model (323 1976-81)
212 = Hull Number
M80 = Model Year (1980)
A = Build Month (August)
Could an extra 1 have slipped in? I noticed that there is a 1979 hull #163 in the Pearson 323 registry (https://www.pearson323.com/pearson-323-owners-registry.html).
12
New Member Introductions / Re: New Member/Owner
« on: October 29, 2022, 06:29:53 PM »
Good luck with the purchase! I hope it goes smoothly.
My purchase criteria were very similar to yours, with one addendum: Here in the CA Bay Area is can get a bit windy, so I wanted a boat with a seakindly motion. Like you, I often single hand; in summer time, frequently in the 20-25kn range, and Selene has always kept me safe and dry. I was out a couple of years back, in 35+kn. She handled it well, I was comfortable at the helm. The rather aging dodger suffered a bit, though :-)
Every boat is a compromise - I must admit she's not the fastest on a beat. And heaving to is more like lying ahull. But she was not bought as a racer, and beam reaching definitely holds her own. A solid, comfortable boat.
My purchase criteria were very similar to yours, with one addendum: Here in the CA Bay Area is can get a bit windy, so I wanted a boat with a seakindly motion. Like you, I often single hand; in summer time, frequently in the 20-25kn range, and Selene has always kept me safe and dry. I was out a couple of years back, in 35+kn. She handled it well, I was comfortable at the helm. The rather aging dodger suffered a bit, though :-)
Every boat is a compromise - I must admit she's not the fastest on a beat. And heaving to is more like lying ahull. But she was not bought as a racer, and beam reaching definitely holds her own. A solid, comfortable boat.
13
Deck Mounted Hardware / Re: 323 rear pulpit
« on: June 30, 2022, 06:18:03 PM »
I redid all if mine. Removed the stanchions (labelled first!). Used a dremel router bit to remove some of the core, leaving the screw holes in the fiberglass "skin" untouched. Filled with epoxy. Redrilled the holes, bedded the stanchions using butyl tape.
So far, no leaks; but I did have to go around and re-tighten the screws after around 6 months, once things settled.
The most time consuming part was getting around to doing the work! The P323 has great access, so it was fairly quick and straightforward.
So far, no leaks; but I did have to go around and re-tighten the screws after around 6 months, once things settled.
The most time consuming part was getting around to doing the work! The P323 has great access, so it was fairly quick and straightforward.
14
Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Garhauer Rigid Vang.
« on: June 02, 2022, 04:52:30 PM »
Hi Michael!
My old vang system was a block and lines. I guess people were stronger in the 1980s, as I found that setup almost impossible to trim (as an aside, I also hated the traveller setup for the same reason). So personally, I find the Garhauer setup much easier to use and adjust. And now I have adjustments other than "on" and "off"!
Personally, I have removed the topping lift and have had no issues (except the sail not longer hits the topping lift when tacking).
I have slab reefing, and the vang (when released) keeps the boom high enough for me to reef without an issue.
As ever, your mileage may vary...and I am always learning new stuff, and so would welcome feedback or diverse opinions on any of these points!
BTW, Alma's comments about insulation are well made (I used plastic from milk bottles). And, of course, lanocote or similar on the screws. Let's keep these boats sailing another 4o years :-)
My old vang system was a block and lines. I guess people were stronger in the 1980s, as I found that setup almost impossible to trim (as an aside, I also hated the traveller setup for the same reason). So personally, I find the Garhauer setup much easier to use and adjust. And now I have adjustments other than "on" and "off"!
Personally, I have removed the topping lift and have had no issues (except the sail not longer hits the topping lift when tacking).
I have slab reefing, and the vang (when released) keeps the boom high enough for me to reef without an issue.
As ever, your mileage may vary...and I am always learning new stuff, and so would welcome feedback or diverse opinions on any of these points!
BTW, Alma's comments about insulation are well made (I used plastic from milk bottles). And, of course, lanocote or similar on the screws. Let's keep these boats sailing another 4o years :-)
15
Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning / Re: Garhauer Rigid Vang.
« on: May 29, 2022, 04:07:46 AM »
I installed mine in 2014, so all I have are some (cryptic) notes and my dodgy memory to rely upon! And I am not an engineer...
Basically - talk to Garhauer (Mark?). They know their stuff and will give the best advice.
The good news - I sent bent wire mast profiles, exchanged a couple of emails with Mark, and what I got back was exactly what I requested, built to the usual Garhauer high quality standard. Very happy with it.
I did ask for the plates on the mast to be made 2" larger than usual, to wrap further around the mast; Mark agreed to do this. I don't know if it was necessary, but a nearby boat had a (non-Garhauer) rigid vang torn out of the mast, which to be honest freaked me out! I was thinking of how you would repair a compromised mast like that...anyhow, I reckoned instead of relying solely on the threads of the bolts to hold the vang in place, the bolts themselves would be stronger. It's shocking to me how thin our masts are, and how soft the Al...
One issue with the P323 is that the available height between the deck plate and boom does not result in an optimal vang angle/placement. I did an analysis of the vang angle on other boats, seeing vangs typically in the 34-38 degree range - so the worked with Mark to get the optimal dimensions. My results:
Boom Angle: 30º
Upper tube: 30"
Inner tube: 24.5"
Total uncompressed 52 1/4"
Total Compressed 48"
I discussed this with Mark, and he explained that this length is as short as it can be - even though the angle is not optimal. I validated this, in that compressing the vang shortens it by 4 " instead of my target of 6" - but make it any smaller and it will not be able to compress. This gives a boom vang angle of 32º when compressed - not ideal, but adequate.
I hope this helps!
Basically - talk to Garhauer (Mark?). They know their stuff and will give the best advice.
The good news - I sent bent wire mast profiles, exchanged a couple of emails with Mark, and what I got back was exactly what I requested, built to the usual Garhauer high quality standard. Very happy with it.
I did ask for the plates on the mast to be made 2" larger than usual, to wrap further around the mast; Mark agreed to do this. I don't know if it was necessary, but a nearby boat had a (non-Garhauer) rigid vang torn out of the mast, which to be honest freaked me out! I was thinking of how you would repair a compromised mast like that...anyhow, I reckoned instead of relying solely on the threads of the bolts to hold the vang in place, the bolts themselves would be stronger. It's shocking to me how thin our masts are, and how soft the Al...
One issue with the P323 is that the available height between the deck plate and boom does not result in an optimal vang angle/placement. I did an analysis of the vang angle on other boats, seeing vangs typically in the 34-38 degree range - so the worked with Mark to get the optimal dimensions. My results:
Boom Angle: 30º
Upper tube: 30"
Inner tube: 24.5"
Total uncompressed 52 1/4"
Total Compressed 48"
I discussed this with Mark, and he explained that this length is as short as it can be - even though the angle is not optimal. I validated this, in that compressing the vang shortens it by 4 " instead of my target of 6" - but make it any smaller and it will not be able to compress. This gives a boom vang angle of 32º when compressed - not ideal, but adequate.
I hope this helps!