Pearson Yachts Forum

Pearson Boats - Common Systems => Deck Mounted Hardware => Topic started by: rbrtfeld on January 13, 2014, 11:42:29 PM

Title: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on January 13, 2014, 11:42:29 PM
For anyone that had thought about a windlass for the 323, I saw this picture of a windlass setup on a boat for sale on Yachtworld. This is the same project I have been working on. It was nice to see someone already thought of the deck buildup to make the chain and line to match up with the height of the Gypsy. It needs to be around 5 1/2 inches. I built up my deck 3 1/2 inches and now to finish the job I plan to fit an Anchorlift Dolphin 1000 D1012C almost exactly like the one in the picture. I will send more pictures when I complete mine and will have a better idea of the  time and money involved. I think I want to know, maybe not. Hey it's a Boat.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dave on January 14, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
My wife handles the anchor most of the time. She has been asking about this so I am watching this thread with great anticipation. Lots of photos and lots of details would be great. The price part scares me.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on January 19, 2014, 10:03:37 AM
Thanks for posting that pic.  I am also about to install a windlass.  After buying the Lewmar H3 horizontal windlass, a bit bulky and hard to fit with the limited deck space on a 323, I exchanged it for a Maxwell 10-8 vertical with gypsy only.  The picture you posted tends to make me feel better about getting the vertical as the installation, even with the pad underneath seems to be a cleaner install.  As information, having handled the Lewmar h3, a product at the top of their offerings, the Maxwell unit appears to be sturdier in weight and build (made in New Zealand) and the electrical parts (switches, circuit breaker)  remind me of the quality Blue Sea Systems stuff.  As for chain, I bought 200 ft of Acco g4.  It gets a bit expensive but this is one of the areas where you can beat Defender's prices.  They have 5/16 G4 at $4.29 while windlasschain.com will sell it for $3.50 but seems to want to sell pre-cut lengths.  Maybe they're an outlet for leftovers from big jobs or from the factory.  Saved me $158.00, though.

As we all know, solid ground tackle is critical to the safety of your boat and til now, I have been guilty of giving it far less attention (and boat dollars) than it deserves.  For me at least at 64 years old, the ability to effortlessly deploy and retrieve a heavy, stout anchor and chain rode makes cruising more pleasurable and will no doubt make us less likely to end up as "marina hoppers". As we go through our individual installs, let's continue to document experiences here.  Would be a big help to me and I'm sure others as well.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on January 19, 2014, 08:37:22 PM
Dulcinea,
The Maxwell is a great windlass, but I hope you can get it to fit if you are going to build up the deck like in the picture. In order to get the chain to line up without some kind of modification on the deck before it gets to the Gypsy, you need about 5 1/2 inches of Height.  This of course depends on the anchor roller you have.  Then you have to think about the units shaft assembly being long enough to reach the motor in the Locker area. I had to order a spare shaft from Anchorlift and will have to couple them together on order to have the key on the shaft fit and reach the Motor and gear assembly. Also I had to order extra length SS all thread for the Studs to reach as well. This turned out to be a bigger and more expensive project that I thought it was going to be. My advice is to think about the measurements and re-think them over and over again. There is such limited space to fit the Motor that it becomes a problem not matter what you choose to do. I bought my Anchorlift Dolphin 1000 about a year ago and then changed my mind and bought a earlier version of the Quick Prince model DP2E Vertical that I thought would be easier to install. I then let someone change my mind that we could make the Achorlift 1000 fit. If I had to do it over again, I would highly consider the Quick unit. Maxwell has a unit that is similar (RC6) but only has 500 watts of power and is probally to small to work for you. Hope I did not make you crazy thinking about this. I went back and forth a least 10 times. I am still not sure I am doing the right thing but I am planning on trying to finish my install in the middle of Feb. I just want to get it over with and don't want to think about the time and money for this project. I will post pictures.  Good luck and let me know what you think you can come up with for your boat. Maybe between us we can help someone else come up with a better way. It sucks getting old, if I was 22 again, I would pull the anchor up by hand.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on January 20, 2014, 12:46:07 PM
Good advice.  Getting longer studs is no problem, but extending the shaft could be a long range issue.  May the horizontal is better, just have to extend the studs.  Thanks
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dolce_Vita on January 20, 2014, 02:43:56 PM
I like the idea of the vertical because you can mount it to get a reasonably fair lead from either side. 
With the horizontal shaft, you're going to have to point it to lead from one side or the other.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on January 20, 2014, 04:37:50 PM
Dulcinea,

If you can send me a good picture of your anchor roller. I can give you my thoughts on what you need to look at. Some 323's have different rollers than mine. I spent a lot of time measuring and thinking about the angle of the chain where it would hit the gypsy. This has to be within 5 degrees or you will have problems. I saw a great article in Blue water sailing on this very subject. Part one was in September issue and Part 2 in November. I have the Novemeber issue and will have Part 1 this week.  Send me a quick note to rbrtfeld@aol.com and I will scan and email you the articles.

If anyone is interested in the Quick Crystal windlass I have, I would sell it for what I have in it. Check out this link for the details. I think I paid $550 for it with the drum option. I also have the wireless accesories for it as well. This might be one of the best options for the 323.
http://www.bargainboatparts.com/p-94615-quick-crystal-windlass.aspx   This has been replaced as the Prince model for 2014. Go to QuickUSA.com for info on the new model name.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on January 22, 2014, 01:47:39 PM
Also checking out the Lofrans Tigres.  It's a solid unit and is over 11 inches high with the center of the gypsy about 5 1/2 inches so it will only require a slight deck build up, if any at all. 
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on January 22, 2014, 03:22:47 PM
That might be the ticket. Great Units. So many choices to confuse us more. Good Luck. If you can get a copy of the templete and or better yet the whole unit to see what it would look like and then measure the angle from the roller to the gypsy, that will give the height you will need to build up if any. I am headed to California next week for a couple of days on business. Hopefully I get a few hours to see if I can finish my project.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on January 22, 2014, 04:19:16 PM
I've ordered the Lofrans and it's on the way.  I'll put it in place and take a pic of it so you can see the relative placement of it to the roller and chain.  It should be here by middle of next week.  By the way, I ordered this thing from a place called marinewarehouse.net in south Florida.  He was cheaper than Defender on the unit and doesn't charge tax when shipping outside of Florida, so I got the windlass for a little over $300 LESS than I would have paid at Defender.  His price on chain is also $.99 less than Defender on 5/16 G4. On 200 feet of chain that adds up.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dave on January 22, 2014, 04:56:50 PM
I found this article very helpful.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/painless.php
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on January 23, 2014, 12:49:28 PM
Now the fun starts. That is a nice Windlass. Looking forward to seeing pictures of the install. Make sure you measure, measure and measure again the angle of the chain from the roller to the gypsy. One fun thing to look forward to is getting part of your body to fit into the chain locker from the V-Berth and then reach up to bolt the unit to the deck. For short fat guys like me it is interesting. Highly recommend a good backing plate under the deck to spread the load. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Libations Too on January 23, 2014, 03:33:37 PM
Dave, thanks for the Good Old Boat link...a nice article. Dulcinea, good luck on your install. Lots of pictures, lessons learned, etc. will be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project- While you're in there
Post by: Alma on January 23, 2014, 04:17:24 PM
Take a look at this!

What's wrong with this install?

Too funny! Who can see Pearson's folly????

Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on January 24, 2014, 12:34:24 PM
rbrtfeld,
the angle of the chain shouldn't be a problem.  May have to put a teak or starboard pad under it to bring it up just a bit, but the center of the chain gypsy is 5 1/2 off the deck and the chain rides slightly above that. I'm thinking 1 1/2 inches max to achieve 90 degrees.  As for the chain locker, I have a skinny 16 year-old who can hold a wrench and fits just fine. Complains a bit too much, tho so I use him for short projects.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on January 26, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
Those skinny 16 years olds can come in handy. One idea I came up with was to add an inspection port in the current Anchor locker. I wil try to send a picture late next week.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on February 05, 2014, 04:39:02 PM
Attached is what my Windlass will look like. I have not clamped everything down but this is the final fitting and measuring process. Note the Inspection port I put in the original Anchor Locker. This really helped with the install and will be a great help in the future to service the Anchor locker and chain.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dolce_Vita on February 05, 2014, 10:06:57 PM
Great photos!  Thanks for posting them.  I am very very interested in this project because the Admiral wants a windlass.

What's your plan for the chain fall after it makes its 180 degree turn around the gypsy?  Or do you plan to just keep tailing it by hand into the locker?
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Libations Too on February 05, 2014, 10:29:25 PM
Great photos! I love that we have two windlass projects underway...I'm really looking forward to "lessons Learned" and any other info that you two can share.

A couple questions:

1. What about ventilation? Without the forward cowl to help ventilate the bilge are either of you concerned about lack of air movement?

2. For the added, raised platform, how did you proceed so that the finished surface looks so nice? Is this gelcoat or is the entire deck painted?

3. Lastly, as the costs add up I hope that you will share your totals. Do you have estimates at this point in time? Deck modification, windlass, chain, anchor roller, wiring, switches, added batteries, etc?

I really like the inspection port in the anchor well...a great idea!

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on February 06, 2014, 11:45:42 AM
The Gypsy underneath the Capstan feeds the chain/line into the Anchor locker space between the V Berth Bulkhead and access port and the hull.  The Capstan on top I wanted just in case I needed it to hoist something. It has a number of uses that you might need in a tight spot.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on February 06, 2014, 12:12:13 PM
It should ventilate fine via the hole thru the deck where chain enters and it also has air that circulates from the vented teak board in the V berth. If that becomes a problem, you can always put in a vent in front of the windlass unit much like the original design. The deck builup was first made and shaped out of 3/4 marine plyboard (Picture attached) to 3 inches and then Fiber glassed to the hull and then gelcoat over that. When it is all over I think you have to figure at least 3,000 for the job. Alot depends on the unit you choose and what you pay for it. The type chain, and are you going to do some of the work yourself. I was lucky to have a friend that is pretty good with these types of projects and he had just done this project to his boat. He had been through all the issues and it was fresh in his mind what we have to measure and how to make it fit the 323.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on February 06, 2014, 03:58:57 PM
rbtfeld:
Great shots and a good project.  I have received my Lofrans tigres.  I thought I ordered the 1200W model but the 1500W showed up.  Looks like it might interfere with the opening of the original anchor locker if I'm not creative with how it mounts.  More to come on that, but I've been stalled by the endless "named" snow storms in the NY area so haven't been able to get to the boat and too cold to do anything once there.  One question I have, however, is how much chain do you think that locker will hold.  I'm guessing you plan to use a rope/chain combination.  I'm thinking of all chain, maybe 200 feet.  Think it will fit?
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on February 07, 2014, 12:17:36 PM
I think 200 ft of chain will fit as long as it falls correctly. What size chain is your windlass calling for? One thing to check is the drain tube for the current on deck anchor locker. Mine would have been in the way of the chain as it drops so I have rerouted it a little to make sure it does not get in the way. I am planning on 150ft of chain and 150 of line. I am pretty sure it will fit OK. Hope your windlass fits OK. You never know till you start playing around with the placement. The most important thing I am told is to get the angle of the chain from the roller to the gypsy right the first time. I am sure you will figure something out.  Good Luck and keep in touch.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Eddy on February 09, 2014, 05:33:40 PM
I have no experience with a windlass. The vertical option looks much easier to implement but I would like to use the existing locker for rode storage. Do you have to use a chain pipe with a vertical windlass?
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on March 16, 2014, 01:41:42 PM
Here are more pictures of my Windlass Install.  I am ready to pull the wire and compete the project. I order 200 ft of Anchorlift line and 100 ft of 5/16 chain.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on May 30, 2014, 03:39:45 PM
Just an update on my windlass project for what its worth.  Hope I have attached the pics correctly.  I decided on the Lofrans Tigres.  It's overreach in terms of capacity - 12V 1500 watts and draws about 85 amps while operating.  Lofrans says it's for boats yup to 46 feet, so should be more than I'll ever need. You will note that the motor housing extends over the door of the anchor original anchor locker.  After considering several solutions to this, including cutting the door so that it swings open and 5200'ing the forward part or just not using it, I drilled out the hinges and inserted removable pins so that the door could be removed if/when necessary. In looking at it in comparison to the pics of others installations, it's not as clean but this is the windlass I wanted.  The teak pad is 2 inches so the angle of the wrap around the gypsy seems also to be ideal.
Dennis on Dulcinea

Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on May 30, 2014, 03:44:31 PM
Additional pics, hopefully.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on May 30, 2014, 06:53:34 PM
I'll bet your glad to get this project over with. Mine turned out to be a lot harder to do than expected and cost way more than thought. There are a lot of options for the windlass. I think you have to just make a decision and go for it. I am gulity of overthinking and spent way to much time on mine. I am sure you will be happy when that chain starts coming aboard wihout your back blowing out a disk. Have a great sailing season. Thanks for the pics
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on June 03, 2014, 12:00:52 PM
You're right.  Too much time and more than a little expense even AFTER buying the windlass.  I actually have not wired it yet.  That comes next weekend (hopefully).  After studying the wiring diagram on the solenoid and the wired remote switch, it all seems pretty straightforward.  One question, I am under the impression that you can run the windlass off the starting battery while the engine is running. I have a 70 amp alternator.  Would be interested in hearing how others on this list have decided which battery to run it from. 
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: rbrtfeld on June 05, 2014, 12:12:50 AM
That is a good question. I had my windlass wired by a marine electrician who at the same time replaced my AC shore power panel. I have a starting battery, but I am pretty sure the windlass is wired to the house battery's. I have a 100 amp alternator. I would want to make sure my starting battery is always going to work so I would think it best to go to the house first. I also carry a Honda 2000 generator just to make sure I can start the motor or charge at anchor. He did put the solenoid in the head area under the sink unit if that helps you decide where to put it.  I am going to put foot switches to back up the remote when I get time. Good luck with the final phase of the windlass project.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Alma on June 05, 2014, 12:11:50 PM
I agree with Robert,

The engine starting battery is isolated to be sure it is available to start engine after house banks have been depleted. Also the engine starting battery isn't a deep cycle battery but a starting battery, so it is designed to deliver high amperage for a short period. Although that sounds good for a windlass application the starting battery doesn't drawn down starting the engine like it would lifting 150' or more of rode.

A frustrated captain trying to "break free" a stuck anchor would certainly damage a starting battery before it was evident.

Some boats have a dedicated windlass battery right next to the windlass. This is good for several reasons. Cables to windlass motor which are big and expensive when done right are shorter. Cables to charging from shore power battery charger and alternator regulator are smaller, lighter and far cheaper. You would need a sizable deep-cycle battery for this job but it might be the most elegant solution. Of course even more weight in the ends of the boat cause hobby horsing too...

I think (and there are as many opinions on marine applications) your best bet is the house bank for the windlass and use the engine's alternator to buffer the load from the windlass. Most folks will be at idle speed when anchoring so the engine's alternator's output would be about 25 amps at most. That is not enough to protect a starting battery. A big house bank will shake off this load.
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Dulcinea on June 07, 2014, 09:50:35 AM
Thanks to all.  Makes sense to use the house batt bank.  I run 300ah on the house bank so should handle the load especially while running the engine.  Now to get it wired up.......
Title: Re: Anchor Windlass Project
Post by: Frayed Knot on December 17, 2014, 03:59:55 PM
My windless was in mine when I got the boat.  I had to replace the foot switch and battery.  I just use it with the line because don't have a lot of chain.  Works for me.