Author Topic: Backing up my P323  (Read 19595 times)

Blue Spray

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Backing up my P323
« on: October 05, 2011, 09:34:40 AM »
I am having some difficulty backing out of my berth (tight quarters) with my new to me Pearson 323 #135 A4 motor. Anyone have any suggestion or tips on how to do this with out making a fool out of myself. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 02:09:43 AM by SeaFever »

Blue Heron

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 05:50:58 PM »
Best advise I can give you is to try to get a dock that allows you to back the stern to port when leaving the slip, so you are using the prop walk to your advantage. You may have to do what we did...We moved our dock to the other side of the pier this season so that we have an approach dock with a port side tie up. No problem getting off the dock now unless we have a fairly strong breeze coming from the North, which in our case pushes the bow down to port as we clear the slip,  causing us to have to manage a 360 degree spin in a very tight fairway.

Best of luck!

Chet

Coppifan

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 10:38:12 AM »
Hi. My 1980 323 won't back up worth a darn. I'm jealous of the other skippers on my pier that back their boats in like a car. Mine backs to starboard, but I need it to back to port! I solicited help from the greater Pearson web a couple of years ago. Got lots of ideas..... The best one that works wonders is what we call our "warping line." I have an @ 60 foot line of 3/8th inch. I put the end loop around my aft port cleat, take a half turn around the stern piling and hook that end loop to the cleat near the winch. As I back out, the line feeds itself out, keeping an eye on it so that it doesn't get anywhere near the prop. When it reaches it's end, the bow has already cleared the outer pile on the other side and the line tightens, swinging the stern and bow around so that I'm pointing in the right direction. I let the line slacken and my wife quickly pulls the line in to the cockpit. Works like a charm! People on the pier watch, some thinking I have a bow thruster.

Dolce_Vita

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 01:45:09 PM »
I have a 1977, Atomic-4 powered P323.  In reverse, the prop walk makes it back to port.
(I understand that the diesel powered P323s rotate the opposite way, and back to starbord)

What I've found is that getting the boat moving is crucial.  I generally start backing with
a high throttle setting while holding a good force on the reverse position on the "shifter"
lever to minimize any slip and get reverse going as quickly as possible.  As soon as the
boat stops moving forward, I immediatly reverse the ruder to oppose the prop walk. 
The boat ignores the rudder and starts backing to port until it gets a little speed and the
rudder starts to bite.  At that point, I back down the throttle, which reduces the prop walk
and lets the rudder take over,  allowing me to "back it like a car" from that point on.

What this means in practical terms is that whenever I need to back into somewhere, I need
to allow a little room to get a "running start".  It's kind of scary, as the boat starts to go the
wrong way, looking like its going to crash into the pilings.  The natural impulse is to immediately
back off the throttle, but that's exactly the wrong thing to do!  Wait until the rudder starts to
bite, THEN back off the throttle.  It's nerve-wracking, but it works.

My slip is tight, and there are pilings across from it.  This technique lets me back into it.
For getting out, I have two lines strung down the sides of my slip.  I use those to get the
boat moving forward by hand.  When the outermost piling on the starboard side is abeam
of the starboard winch, I take a line from the piling, pass it in front of the winch, and
hold it tight while putting the engine in forward at idle.  The boat cinches up tight to the
piling (I have stainless steel rub strakes on my toerails), and it pivots around the piling
neat as can be.  Once the turn is complete, I hang the line on the piling and we're on
our way.
@(^.^)@  Ed
1977 P-323 #42 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Chelsea

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 12:17:44 AM »
It is wonderful to hear that others have difficulty backing their 323's... I am a new owner of Chelsea hull #166 circa 1979.  Just got her last month and getting in/out of the slip is a challenge.  My previous boat is a Coronado with 10 hp outboard and it would back up well.  Chelsea on the other-hand leaves me wondering how I can change the prop to have more reverse power.  Has anyone attempted that change?  She is powered by an Atomic 4. 30 hp with a "Michigan" prop, 15x8 3-blade.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
 
s/v Chelsea

Dolce_Vita

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 10:51:26 AM »
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your choice of boat!  We really love ours.  You will have many fine trips on her!


As for your backing, that is the exact same prop I'm running on Dolce Vita.  Backing was tough at first, but it gets better as you learn the boat.

Three things that might help you:
1)  Reverse incurs an additional 1.3:1 reduction.  You need to increase throttle a good bit after shifting into reverse to achieve the same thrust as in forward.

2) Reverse, unlike forward, has no detent, and is a "friction " engagement.  Often it is necessary to hold the shifter lever in the reverse position with some force to get it to engage quickly without slipping.

3) In my experience, reverse is much more sensitive to any fouling on the prop.  When I did the bottom this past spring, I coated the prop and shaft (but not the zincs!) with Pettit's "Barnacle Barrier"

My Atomic 4 is freshly rebuilt, with about 60 hours on it.  The difference in full throttle RPMs before and after was substantial, and greatly helped backing up.  Even without a rebuild, there's a lot of easy things you can do to your A4 to help it out.  There's a really good A4 discussion forum on the Moyer Marine web site:
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php

If you don't already know it, Moyer Marine is the PREMIERE place for A4 support.  Out of about 40,000 A4s built, about 20,000 are still in operation, thanks in no small part to Don Moyer.  The folks on the forum are a wealth of A4 knowledge and are eager to help.

@(^.^)@  Ed
1977 P-323 #42 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Chelsea

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 05:50:37 PM »
Thank you!
I will try higher RPMs sailing in the AM..

My next challenge is lighting to the mast.  Steaming, anchor and spreader lights are all out.  I don't know if it's bulbs or wire...


s/v Chelsea

dooley1

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 08:10:38 AM »
The first thing I'd suggest is can you back your boat into your slip?  I agree with Dolce Vita that you need to get some speed up in reverse to gain steerage.  I go about 20 yards out from my slip (guessing many of you don't have that luxury), then put her in reverse and put the throttle to high rpm's for about 20 seconds.  Once I start moving in reverse, I actually put her in neutral to eliminate prop walk entirely.  Then it is like backing a car.  Since my prop walk moves my stern to starboard, I tend to favor the port side of my slip... if I start to slow down too much I just engage the engine for a few seconds at low rpm which gives me another boost and the short blast of power moves the stern to port a tad.  Of course, having a cross wind makes the whole exercise a bit more of a geometry test.  However, once you have backed her in, there are NO problems whatsoever pulling out bow first!

Blue Spray

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 08:01:52 AM »
Hi everyone:
Thanks for all your tips on backing up my P323 hull number 135. I now have a good handle on backing up using more RPMsin short burst and she responds well when underway. She is now on the hard getting ready to put her away for thr winter.
Thank you,
Gerry

Ed Sakowicz

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2011, 02:05:41 PM »
It is good to get with other P323 owners to help each other understand the boat's performance characteristics. With mine equiped with the diesel, the port side dock is my preference. That way, in reverse I can just keep the rudder straight, and let the prop walk take me away from the dock. This year I was stuck with a Starboard Dock, and need to constantly fend off in reverse. The only benefit is the ability to come into dock, put the transmission in reverse, and have the boat hug the dock due to the prop walk. I have a 3 blade fixed, and am looking to go to a 2 blade folding or perhaps a 3 blade folding. I would hope the 3 blade folding performs close to the fixed. I know from prior boats, the 2 blade folding needs to spin faster, but is close to matching the 2 blade fixed.

AnaMeg

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 06:18:04 PM »
The posts here show much more seamanship than I have, but FWIW, here's the technique I've found useful. I'm in a starboard pier dock and have the diesel with strong starboard prop walk. I need to back to port to get out. (Haven't developed the courage to try backing in.) Using a 1/2" nylon 3 strand aft spring line (stretchy) I put the prop in forward idle speed, rudder to port. That tenses and stretches the spring line and holds the stern toward the dock. First mate takes off all other lines. I put it in neutral and boat starts moving in reverse. A one second full throttle reverse pulse gives it enough speed to make the rudder effective... usually. Then neutral and back, like a car, to port. If there's a wind of the starboard side more than 12k the bow is blown to port and nothing works. I back out of the fairway. When we have guests nothing works. I look rather dumb.

Geoff

selene

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 02:51:43 PM »
Total cop-out, but I almost never back out - I just gently push the boat, walking it down the slip, until it gets enough speed, (or I fun out of room) then hop on board.  Then gun the engine!

Now backing in, that takes practice...still messing that up.

Dave

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 09:31:41 PM »
I have a diesel so mine walks to starboard. I am still getting a feel for it. I have been bumping it in reverse and then back to neutral to avoid the steering to starboard. I backed out of a slip in reverse and it was really walking, and it made me a little weary. Really cannot help with advice but just wanted to say, I was a little nervous going in reverse.
Dave

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Chelsea

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Re: Backing up my P323
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 08:32:08 PM »
About backing up.  I did learn that the transmission on my Atomic 4 (Walther "V" drive") has an adjustment band that when snugged up will help it reverse better.  It will do nothing for the steerage but will help me gain some much needed momentum.  Currently, I can hold the bow and be in reverse with nothing happening... it's not fun..
s/v Chelsea