Author Topic: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports  (Read 7201 times)

mjscottinnc

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My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports
« on: August 31, 2015, 09:51:07 AM »
Just an FYI for anyone planning to remove and rebed the Fix Ports. I found that using an oscillating multi-tool (DeWalt in my case) made taking out the ports a breeze. I removed all four in about an hour and a half, and I was talking my time. On my 323 it seems like it was a tail of two production crews, on the port size there was plenty of room between the fiberglass cutout and the port frame, but on the starboard side the glass was right up against the frame (this side leaked the worst as well). On the port I used the scraping tool on the inside and out. On the starboard I wound up using a saw blade around half of the circumference of the port just to give me enough room between the glass and frame to get the scraper in, and scraped the outside. The standard scraper profile does not fit between the desk and the bottom of the frame on the outside, so I took an old dull saw blade, grounded off the teeth, made it a bit shorter and thinner, put a little bit a radius on the end and I could slip it between the frame and the deck off the side of the tool. The saw blades are much more flexible then the scraper and I was able to give it quite a bit of flex. Once the frame is mostly clear of sealant and starts move somewhat freely, it still takes quite a bit of 'push' to get things moving from inside to out. I also noticed that there was a preferred side to remove first ( top or bottom ), I guessing it depended on how it was last put in. I also used the multi-tool to remove the old sealant from the old frame, the old saw blade worked so well I made a very small one to run in between the frame channels.

Lastly someone in the past tried to reseal the port while in place (common attempt), but I found a clear sealant which seemed like a modified rubber cement, it was not silicone. It was still sticky in some places and in others not bonded to anything. I haven't run into this stuff before.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 09:59:18 AM by mjscottinnc »
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mjscottinnc

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Re: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 10:06:31 AM »
Next FYI for anyone doing this. Headline... removing sealants.

My ports had no less then 6 different types of sealant, including the original. Most of the common sealants have been covered in other posting, so I'll stick to the 'out of the ordinary' stuff I found (God willing you will never find this on anything). As I originally said there was this stuff that looked like rubber cement, it was clear, stringy, and a complete bugger to try to remove. In places it was so sticky that you could only peel small portion at a time, like 1/16 or 1/8 of a inch. I spent an hour and a half and completed 12.5" It had very poor gap filling capabilities, that is why I'm thinking it was an adhesive. It kind of built a stringy honey comb structure between the two surfaces. After an hour a half and a looming deadline to get the frames powder coated, I went to the garage looking for some chemical help... based on how it looked and acted I was guessing that is was some kind of poly product. I had a pint of special thinner from a barrier coat project about 15 years ago, splashed some on and within minutes it turned the sticky mess into another sticky mess, a liquid adhesive mess, which I was able to just wipe away. A couple of wipes with new thinner and the metal was bare.

My best way to remove RTV or Silicone, which was everywhere in the frames. The only way I found that was economical was to try to undermine whatever was under the RTV. So soaking in Lacquer Thinner or Xylene seemed to looser the underlying paint and made mechanical removal a much easier process, I also dipped some scotch bright in lacquer thinner and ran it through the channels, this loosened the small almost transparent slivers. Respirator, gloves and outside was where I did this.
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mjscottinnc

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Re: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2015, 02:48:58 PM »
Last FYIs,

I finished rebuilding all 4 ports today using the Catalina Direct kit and Richard's example. Tip #1: To get the right amount of window gasket I would dry fit around the window glass and once I got to the beginning I would cut it 1/8 to 3/16 longer. When I completed the final assembly the gasket fit was perfect. Doing the first window was a complete mess and took forever, way too much caulk. Some of my frame sets had bleed holes for the excess caulking to exit and some didn't. The first one didn't... which made it the most difficult. By the time I got to the fourth one, I had adjust the caulking to the right amount, and there was very little mess. When I finished the fourth one it looked like I had been doing this procedure for years. Tip #2: I had the frames on two pipe clamps with 2 x 4s at each end to slowly draw the frame together. Sometimes the ends of the frames would not line up when drawn together, so I would use a third pipe clamp and cross clamp on top of the frames so I could move the clamps together. For example if the top frame was too far to the left to meet the bottom of the frame. One end of the cross clamp would go on the left outside of the top frame and the other end of the cross clamp would go on the right outside of the bottom frame. Turning the clamp would draw the two frames together, worked like a champ. Tip #3: 1 Qt of mineral spirits and 3 rolls of paper towels was the right amount for all four ports.

I do have to say, the Catalina Direct gaskets and caulking (Dow 795) makes a real nice finished fixed port. If I didn't do all the work, I'd swear they were new.

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mjscottinnc

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Re: My Experience in Removing Fixed Ports
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 08:33:11 AM »
Final thoughts and tips:

Until you remove the ports and disassemble the frames you don't really know what you have, or what a previous owner or contractor has done. In my case not knowing how the 323 was originally assembled I had thought that the deck and liner port opening had been fiber-glassed together at the factory. Some parts of the openings looked like Richard's pictures with a gap between the deck and liner, while others were a single layer of fiberglass. When I measured the frame gap, deck to liner opening, it was just over 1/2", but where I only had a single layer of fiberglass it only measured .300", so no seal pressure when the frame was completely tightened. The reality was that in a previous attempt to fix the leaking ports someone had bonded the deck and liner together with a silicone sealant and clamped them together alone the ends and corners. It was so tight that you could not see a seam. I found a small gap mid-opening and hammered a putty knife in between the desk and liner. Once separated from one-in-other the gap returned, and was a miraculous 1/2" just like the designer originally planned.

Tip: Use an oscillating multi-tool with the triangular Velcro sanding head, cut a piece of scotch bright to fit. Soak with MEK and use to clean the deck side sealing area. Removes just about everything and leaves a completely clean surface for the sealant.
 
Tip: Get new frame screws, even the least little bit of round over makes it much more difficult. Screws are #8 x 1/2" sheet metal, available with black heads. At the frame ends I used 5/8" for a little bit longer grip and pull.

Tip: Hand start the screws, if you find the original threads life is much easier. If you are going to use Butyl for your frame to deck sealant... tighten, let sit for a day or two, retighten, let sit, etc. etc.

Tip: (Maybe the most important) If you are doing this work when it is 95 degrees in the shade and 98% RH. Put a dry t-shirt in the drink cooler, at the end of the day strip off the soaked one and put on the now cool and dry one. It is almost as good as taking a shower. Sit in the cockpit, drink in hand and admire your work.

So far: No runs, no drips, on errors. Getting closer to a dry boat everyday, now on to the opening ports.
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