Author Topic: Shorepower inlet.  (Read 10345 times)

jmcmonagle

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 1
  • P323 Enthusiast
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Free Spirit
  • City: Green Bay
  • State: WI
Shorepower inlet.
« on: November 21, 2016, 09:09:10 PM »
The surveyor determined the the fuse or breaker must be withing 3 feet of the inlet.
So the insurance company wants it changed :-(
At some point will want  new ac panel after I get done the other survey issues and things that really bother me.

I see two possible solutions.

1. Put breaker in the aft portion of the starboard lazarette.
Exactly where I'm not sure.
Needs to be accessible but not too easy to accidentally switch.

2. Move inlet  to below and right of the manual bilge pump.

Any thoughts on this?
I lean towards 2. When done all the ac stuff will be in one spot.
Biggest con is  cosmeticly  filling the old hole.

John



selene

  • P323
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 376
  • Karma: 6
  • Mighty Member
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Selene
  • City: Redwood City
  • State: CA
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 11:08:09 AM »
My, you are busy!  I think we all face the same dilemma - but not yet enforced by insurance.  My plan is option 1 - put in an ELCI in the locker.

This article may be useful: http://www.boatingmag.com/installing-an-equipment-leakage-circuit-interrupter

I like the idea of the Blue Seas ELCI/housing - but rather big and expensive! Things are getting a bit crowded in my starboard lazarette, as the hydraulic ram for the autopilot is also there...

Incidentally, if you do decide to move the inlet, you may want to consider changing to a Smartplug. I don't have one, but many people swear by them.

Good luck and keep us posted!

jmcmonagle

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 1
  • P323 Enthusiast
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Free Spirit
  • City: Green Bay
  • State: WI
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 09:13:47 PM »
Was not thinking of elci but really should.
Makes it a bit larger and more expensive :-(

My last boat had a  plastic ac outlet box mounted to bullhead in the  lazarette.
A blue sea breaker on small panel  was attached via a adapter panel made out of wood.
Looked OK.

This is my proposal:
Get a side mountable electrical box large enough to hold the elei breaker.
A double box or  similar. Maybe an exterior metal box.
Need to consider strain relief.
If you have the skill ( I doen't)  to make a panel with all the needed holes.
Or buy the elci with panel and if needed make an adapter panel.

Need to be able to see and reach breaker but not where  it will be accidentally tripped.
I'm  thinking high and aft as far as one can see and reach.

rnebergall

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 0
  • P323 Owner
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Zufrieden
  • City: Grand Marais
  • State: MN
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2016, 08:37:31 AM »
Curious relative the surveyor's determination that the breaker must be within 3 feet of the inlet.  The spec sheet for the Blue Seas surface mount system says it meets ABYC E11 standards when used with an ELCI Main Circuit breaker and mounted within 10 feet of the shore power inlet.  Do you know why your surveyor is requiring the breaker to be within 3' of the inlet?

In my case, the existing breaker box is almost the same size as the Blue Seas box.  So, size would not be an issue.  I would be wanting to locate a replacement box in the same location, which, I'm guessing would be within 10', but certainly not within 3'.  Existing box is right on top of where the old original fuse panel was located, forward in port lazarette.

jmcmonagle

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 1
  • P323 Enthusiast
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Free Spirit
  • City: Green Bay
  • State: WI
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2016, 06:44:03 PM »
I'm thinking that the surveyor was mistaken about the 3 feet.
I've read ABYC E11 and it clearly says 10 feet or 3 meters.
He didn't bother checking for fuses or breaker or measuring the distance.
So he reported that be saw no breaker or fuses and guessed it to be over 10 feet.
I've measured and it's under 10 feet.
Have the original ac install  with fuses under peg board.
The fuses are  too hard to get at and ABYC-11 does not allow fuses for the main.
Now I'm leaning toward this:
http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-8101-120-Volt-AC-Circuit-Breaker-Panel-with-ELCI-Main_p_2714.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiAperBBRDfuMf72sr56fIBEiQAPFXszYtHAqRz4rO1xKLDNMjFAV9EfzdfKM15TGx0okQfDxkaAlLE8P8HAQ
Little cheaper some other places.
Back is about $20.
Breakers about $14.

If your install is otherwise OK  hubble and marinco make elci that look like a shore power inlet box.

rnebergall

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 0
  • P323 Owner
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Zufrieden
  • City: Grand Marais
  • State: MN
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2016, 09:16:36 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  I hope your insurer goes by the actual language in ABYC, rather than an ill-informed comment by the surveyor, if you don't want to locate the breaker back by the original inlet.  The panel you link to does look like a good choice.  I am eager to hear how you eventually solve the problem.

I've not actually been confronted with an immediate need, but adding ELCI protection just seems like a pretty smart upgrade.   I think I'd like to swap out the old surface mount in place now, for the ELCI box.  I do like the idea of the closed container (surface mount), since it is out in the lazarette.  A few more $$, but this looks good too.

http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-3116-ELCI-Main-Surface-Mount-Panel-30-Amp-120-VAC_p_2699.html

jmcmonagle

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 1
  • P323 Enthusiast
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Free Spirit
  • City: Green Bay
  • State: WI
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 04:39:13 PM »
The insurance company approved my plan.
About 20% done.
Cut in new outlet box.
Removed old outlet, water heater switch and wiring in the new panel area.
Want to wait for a warmer weather to continue.
The 10 day forecast is well below freezing.

rnebergall

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 0
  • P323 Owner
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Zufrieden
  • City: Grand Marais
  • State: MN
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2016, 03:13:44 PM »
Love to see some pics when you're done.

Alma

  • P323
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • GeneSmithStudio
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: ALMA
  • City: Forked River, NJ
  • State: NJ
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 11:03:36 PM »
Marine surveyors are a racket!

My well paid (20 years ago) surveyer Rob Cozen supplied a neat and clean report of my ALMA for insurance and pre purchase inspection.

Luckily the Boat US insurance didn't insist I change the original Pearson shore power inlet or fuse locations- FUSES!
Cozen suggested I install circuit breakers.
I did not and 20 years later the same fuses protect me and my water heater, outlets and battery charger.
I've never had to change one.

I do some marine electrical installations and troubleshooting and often I'm at odds with the ABYC.
On my own boat I have no circuit breakers. Fuses are faster acting and a fuse on BOTH + and - leads to a VHF radio seems strange. The reason it is done is the negative fuse just might protect a VHF in a lightning strike.
That's why the ICOM radios come with dual fuses...

Mr. Cozen DID report in his Survey that ALMA's Diesel GENERATOR was in "tip-top" shape.

I STILL haven't found the generator
OR the supply of DIESEL fuel since we still use the gas Artmic FOUR!

........

selene

  • P323
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 376
  • Karma: 6
  • Mighty Member
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Selene
  • City: Redwood City
  • State: CA
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 01:01:32 PM »
The problem I have had with this project is the placement of the ECLI.  ABYC E11.11.11 requires it to be within 10' of cable from the receptacle.  So the breaker can be on a panel in the galley, but I think the ECLI needs to be in the lazarette...but I am open to other ideas as (like I said) it is a big box (and expensive), and mounting it on a panel in the galley would be a lot more elegant!

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/brochures/980010950_002-web.pdf

jmcmonagle

  • P323
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 1
  • P323 Enthusiast
    • View Profile
  • Model: P323
  • Vessel Name: Free Spirit
  • City: Green Bay
  • State: WI
Re: Shorepower inlet.
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2017, 11:06:00 AM »
It's rather challenging to trace the routing of the wire from the inlet to the fuses.
From what I can tell it goes down from the inlet, Goes under the cockpit sole and goes forward  a few inches in along the starboard side.
Then it follows the bullhead to the fuses.
From my measurements it's under 10' to the fuses and  a couple feet shorter to the new panel.

So far have removed old switch and outlet and have cut in new outlet box and hole for panel.
Temporarily removed manual bilge pump to improve access from back.
Really challenging cutting some of the cable ties.
They must have put them in when the boat was only partially assembled.

Have traced out all the ac wires other then neutral and ground for water heater.
Hope they will be more obvious after pulling the other wires from the old ac panel.

Should be able to move wires to new panel soon.
Attached is photo of new panel.
It's not screwed in so it's a little low in the hole.