Holding Tank

[Scott]

Hi all,
I am in the process of purchasing a 323 and the first thing I will have to do to the boat is install a holding tank. I see in the line drawings that one is shown in the area of the V Birth, starboard side. Can anyone tell me where I can find information on rero fitting a holding tank in this area? Thanks, Scott

[selene]

Hi Scott,

My 323 has the holding tank installed - I can take photos/answer questions about the setup.

The original installation - as you said, in the starboard side of the v-berth - was a rigid plastic tank similar to the water tanks (but smaller), supported and secured on a simple wooden frame in the locker. Vent out the starboard side, pump-out connection on the starboard deck.

A friend who has an Islander has recently replaced his holding tank with a bladder, instead of a rigid tank.  This may be an easier install - and would be lower down in the hull, putting the weight lower.  Just a thought.

Another option could be a composting head, such as Nature's Head. Much simpler to install, reduced the plumbing. This may be relevant: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/58601-composting-toilet-report.html

Just sayin' . . . a retrofit would be quite a lot of work - Y-valve, vented loop, pump-out pipe and fitting, vent lots of pipes. holes cut here and there...

Good luck, and congrats on your excellent choice of sailboat!

[Scott]

Hi Selene,
thanks for the response. In an hour I am heading to the boat with a surveyor and if everything checks out as I suspect it will, I will be the new owner of hull #135! I have admired this model for some time now and am excited about finally being able to own one. I would certainly appreciate photos of the holding tank arrangement in your boat, but you have also given me food for thought on the composting head idea.
Thanks, Scott

[Dolce_Vita]

Scott,

  If you do go back in with a holding tank, here's one thing to consider:

Our boats, and most built at that time, have the head plumbed directly to the Y valve.  One side of the Y goes to the tank, and the other side goes to the thru-hull for direct discharge overboard (only legal when youre offshore).  The tank outlet is directly connected to the deck pumpout fitting. The problem with this design is that the only way to empty the tank is thru the deck fitting, which requires a pumpout station.

Later designs changed the plumbing arrangement so that the head was plumbed directly to the holding tank.  The Y valve was on the OUTLET of the tank.  One side led to the deck fitting, and the other led to a manual whale gusher pump and then to the thru hull.  This provided a way to empty the tank (again if you're offshore) without the use of a pumpout station.

[Scott]

Whereas I am in Nova Scotia and require the holding tank primarily for cruising in the Bras d"Or Lake, and considering the fact that pump out stations are scarce, I will set up the holding tank as you suggest with the ability to pump the tank out while off shore along the coast.
Thanks again Ed

[slacker]

I would second the recommendation to look at an Air Head or Natures Head. We took out our holding tank and replaced the head with an Air Head. It fits perfectly and there is basically no smell. Will never go back to a wet head.

[Scott]

Would a composting toilet be more suitable for long term cruising then a traditional holding tank?
Scott

[Dolce_Vita]

Would a composting toilet be more suitable for long term cruising then a traditional holding tank?

Since it's essentially a "litter box" for humans (with separate liquid collection), you still have to carry and periodically dispose of the waste.

One of my most experienced cruising frinds long ago installed a LectraSan, which treats and sterilizes the waste, making it legal to discharge overboard in all but strict "no discharge" zones.  It does, however,  draw a lot of power.

[Alma]

My head is plumbed with rigid PVC pipe from Home Depot. The outlet goes to a TEE. One way goes to the overboard seacock. The rigid PVC has a barb fitting to attach to hose for a half foot to mate with the seacock's barb fitting. The other half of the TEE goes to a ball valve then through the forward bulkhead. Behind the bulkhead again the PVC has a barb adapter and hose takes over for the run to the holding tank. The hose goes up the bulkhead behind the Vee-Berth shelves and the hose loops back down to the tank.

I have no failure-prone "Y" Valve. When overboard discharge is desired the ball valve to the holding tank is closed- the overboard seacock is open. When holding tank use is desired, the overboard seacock is closed and the ball valve to the holding tank is open.

This arrangement and its use of rigid PVC was seriously frowned upon 15 years ago when I installed it.

Folks would say the rigid pipe would break when my bulkheads "flexed".
We can agree if a 323s bulkheads flex that much we'd have more immediate problems than a little sewage in the bilge...

When I replaced the original W/C brand toilet with a more robust one from Rariton, I was able to swap the base and pump and re-use the china bowl from the W/C head. I'd now recommend buying a new Rariton from Defender. There is little savings buying just the pump and base. Rariton is 40 miles from me so it was fast and convenient to buy the parts that way.

Just last week I removed the Rariton head and brought it home to grease the pump and de-scale the plumbing (with a dilute white vinegar solution). The existing rigid PVC on ALMA is in perfect condition after 15 years in service. It is odor proof, mold and mildew proof and very easy to rinse clean with the shower. It also is a shipshape looking installation.

The interface between the head's outlet and the rigid PVC is a standard Fernco fitting!
Yes- one stainless clamp at each end and below the waterline. It is as dependable as a dripless shaft seal.

Would a hair-brained surveyor say my setup is not ABYC satisfactory? Yep.
Will it work flawlessly another 20 years?
Most likely.

It is nice to be able to honestly say "No 'Y' Valve on this installation" when boarded.

It is even nicer to be able to enjoy sailing without stink, leaks, or worries.

Consider neat clean rigid PVC. It is an elegant solution.

[Sea Haven]

Composting head.....2nd BEST purchase EVER!

Scott,

I'm on my 4th season using Natures Head. I loved it so much I removed it from the old boat to my new to me 323; which even had a serviceable/traditional Marine head/holding tank!

Here is the thread regarding installation on SEA HAVEN:  Head Upgrade
Took an afternoon to install, most of which was yanking out the existing MSD.

Like politics and religion, I suppose ones choice of MSD system is quite personal. Having had both, I happen to prefer the composting toilet.

The ONLY on-board odor I've experienced is akin to "garden dirt" and ONLY if i stick my nose in the bowl, and THAT was because I didn't believe how odorless it is!
I gained storage space by removal of the old storage tank and I've lost the need to pay/tip the pumpout folks as well as being held at their mercy.
Granted I empty the liquid tank after 2-3 days of use, and to be honest, that may be not odor free (if it sat over a week) as you pour it down any conventional toilet ashore, but it really is nothing.
I unload the compost at the end of the season which gives me pretty flowers in the spring.

Again, with all due respect to those that stick with traditional Marine Plumbing, I'll never go back.

"Sub" Ed

PS Congratulations and good luck on your "new to you" 323, you will find as we did it's the 323 that wins "BEST purchase EVER!"

[Dolce_Vita]

...I unload the compost at the end of the season which gives me pretty flowers in the spring. ...

Don't think I could get away with that.   This season we spent a total of 20 nights aboard,
with anywhere from 2 to 4 people.  A total of 47 people-nights for the season.  I suspect
that's a LOT of compost! 

[selene]

Okay Scott - sorry for the delay - here are some shots of the (I assume) factory installation from 1980.

Some of the plumbing is behind the storage unit on the stbd side - as I recall the vented loop, vent, and link up to the pumpout. As we're just getting ready for a few days cruise it's full right now - and no time to disassemble!

I also took a shot under the tank so you can see the basic wooden platform which support it; quite a lot of wasted space, as you wouldn't want to store anything underneath - despite my best efforts the smell lingers...

I hope this helps.  Ask specific questions and I (or some more knowledgeable person) will see what  we can do - but perhaps this is a starting point.

[Scott]

Thanks for the photos and replies. Now I have to decide if I want to install the traditional holding tank or go with the composting toilet. Can anyone comment on the composting toilet for an extended live aboard situation such as a winter in the caribbean?

[selene]

You may want to post the question on a bigger generic forum such as Sailnet (www.sailnet.com) or a cruising forum such as cruisersforum.com.  Lots of sailors from lots of different boats - a bigger experience pool. And I would bet somebody living cruising in the Caribbean would have an answer for you!

Having said that, lots of sailors means lots of advice - in general all very authoritative and in general all very contradictory!

[Dolce_Vita]

... As we're just getting ready for a few days cruise it's full right now ...

Go ahead, rub it in!

Been winterized for 2 weeks already, and we've already had several evenings below freezing.

Forecast is for snow tonight!