Author Topic: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show - New Sails  (Read 12110 times)

Sea Haven

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44th Annual Newport International Boat Show - New Sails
« on: August 22, 2014, 01:19:53 PM »
Shipmates,

The Admiral and I are hitting the Boat Show Saturday, Sept 13th.

Along with window shopping and small items of interest, we plan on hitting.....

Garhauer Marine: Traveller/Main Sheet

Getting quotes for new Main and Genny:
Doyle Sails
Hood Sailmakers
Mack Sails
North Sails
Sperry Sails

If anyone else plans on going,  would love to meet for lunch.

"Sub" Ed
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 08:23:51 PM by SeaFever »

Sea Haven

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2014, 01:26:23 PM »
Boat show report.

Had a great time with the Admiral despite getting up before 0500 to catch the 0700 ferry out of Orient Point.

Arrived at New London around 0830 so we took the 10 minute drive over to Defender's as most stuff there was on sale to coincide with the show.

Purchased a 2nd identical house battery to double that capacity, 2 day shapes ( the anchor ball and the inverted cone for power sailing) as well as a stainless steel pipe to extend the height of my Wirie Wifi Antenna. 

Newport was great! Lot's of vendors, collected a lot of business cards. Bought a few of the "show items" like "Rescue Tape" (always a must) and something called "Wipeout Erase" These vendors always have good deals like buy one get one free etc.

I did order and paid show price for the Garhauer MT-2CT-TP as mentioned in one of our threads regarding travelers. Also picked up 40-01 US & 40-06 US Fiddle blocks for my main sheet. Everything was free shipping.

As my main purpose was to price a new Genoa and main, I met with 5 Sailmakers in the following order:

Mack
Sperry
Doyle
North Sails
Hood

Here is my impression from worse to best:

Of the 5, Sperry and Doyle took my handouts (Basically the 323 Sail plan posted here with design requests and my contact information) and offered little else other than they'll get in touch with me.

North Sails had a YOUNG individual, and I'm reaaaaally trying not to judge on that, who did talk with me for a few minutes, recommended the material HE would choose (200?) and would need to come measure the boat. Something about the meet didn't impress me. Walked away feeling unsatisfied, and confused as to whether or not I'm getting a quote.

At Hood sails, Joe Cooper went through my handout with me, asking questions, giving answers/recommendations and explaining various  items of interest.
Points I got from him:
Stitching: He claimed they use a better stitching method than others, instead of a "tight" zigzag with the stitch going through only at the apex of each triangle, theirs is a "broader" stitch  with the stitch going through 5x from corner to corner.
Battens: He shied away from 4 full battens, explaining that the horizontal load against the mast by the batten makes it difficult to raise/lower the main. And unless I really want that "tiny" bit of speed advantage as in racing, a 2 full x 2 partial would suit me better.
Didn't really go that much into little details like sail slides and such, but I can always ask after I get a quote. If I do go with them, he wants to come personally measure the boat.
15% off until mid October

Finally, the first I saw, and the ones that impressed me the most, was Mack. So much so I went to see them again before I left to answer some questions I learned from Hood and North.
I met with Tim (last name escapes me) and Colin Mack, one of the founders son's. This is definitely a family business.
They actually had sails there to demonstrate all the finer points of their sails. They use webbing to attach the sail slides. The standard luff reef fitting is a large stainless steel ring attached to one side of the sail with strong webbing. This system has the advantage that, when reefing, one can pull the ring into position over the reefing hook/tack horn, and one does not have to pull the whole sail and guide it over the reefing hook. The main will come with slides on the foot as well , not a loose footed main. 80% of the sails they fabricate are full batten mains, they use cars and not slides where the battens are and the battens install from the luff, not the leech as most others so there is no real issue with raising/lowering the main or having the battens work themselves out.  I examined the stitching without asking and it seemed identical to Hood (5 stitches from apex to apex).
Tim recommended a 135 Genoa, and that sounded right for me as I feel over taxed with the current 150.
They have a 10% discount, until October, no tax, free shipping. I really liked the quality, and have to admit I was impressed by the talks. Colin took the time explain why they feel they stand out. Though they had 323 numbers, they would like measurements taken just to rule out any possible differences

Unless Hood is substantially less, I'll probably go with Mack.

Here are some Web Sites related to the stuff I found worth sharing! Tons of other stuff that I feel is gimmicky designed to separate a sailor from his cash.
Really, I can mount a fender and adjust it easily enough with a simple knot.

Latitudes and Attitudes visit Mack Sails at a Boat Show Good independent view.
Rescue Tape duh.
Wipeout Eraser Good clean fun!
Night Watch Marine Lighting I find our 323 one of the easiest vessels to get being panels to install extra goodies, and while this may verge on gimmicky here, I can thing of non-boat applications for LED "Induction" lighting. Worth a look.

Why this area is worth the visit:
After the show the Admiral and I went up to Fairhaven MA. (40 or so minutes further) and paid tribute to the Joshua Slocum marker at the spot where he built SPRAY. Spent Saturday night two blocks from there at "The Seaport Inn and Marina", a great price and great place to stay. Staying there aboard Sea Haven is a voyage in the planning.
The next day we visited the Seaman's Bethel where I got a pic of the Admiral sitting in Herman Melville's pew. If we tie the knot, this will be the place and turn the aforementioned voyage into an extended Honeymoon. After the visiting the Bethel, we turned 180 and walked right across the cobblestone street to hit the New Bedford Whaling Museum, talk about getting your "New England Nautical" on! We could have spent several days at the museum alone! But alas, all good things must come to an end! Visited shortly with a friend in Mattapoiset (off Buzzards Bay before Cape Cod) before the long trip home. If you EVER have a chance to make it up here, it's worth the visit. This region eats, breaths and lives boating to the soul! I was able to have my fill of New England Clam Chowder at almost each meal!!

v/r
"Sub" Ed
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 02:50:34 PM by Sea Haven »

Alma

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2014, 05:37:53 PM »
I like the idea if the 135 instead of the 150. I'll be curious to hear how it compares.

Rusty Pelican

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 09:08:34 AM »
I went to the show as well.
Purchased the Gunboat 60.
They took a 3rd party cashiers check drawn on a Nigerian bank.
Sailed it back on Sunday

Alma

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 10:08:24 AM »
So sorry you had do downgrade from your 323...

Sea Haven

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 12:52:14 PM »
Latest update.....

David from Garhauer yesterday to confirm that I want the EXACT same Traveller setup as the previous two he did for "Selene" and "Vantage":Traveller
Nice that they do that! Been dealing with Garhauer since '02 and I absolutely love not only their "T-800 Terminator grade" Hardware. but how they do business too.

North Sails did call and leave a message, a rep from their local shop. Playing phone tag.

Regarding my genoa downsizing. I think what I have there is a bear. Sure nice once set, but a bit to handle. The PO had two 1/2", 40' sheets made fast with bowlines. Talk about the knots and lines getting caught up on every tack even when back winded, controlled fed, whatever. They seemed to like to wrap around the cowls! I replaced the two 1/2", 40's with a single 7/16", 80' line fastened to the clew with a Larks Head knot. Works a lot better, but still having that #1 flapping as you tack is "knot" for me. FWIW, though the 323 Parts list calls for 1/2", a long time racer (Swan 59, Bristol 53 Ketch, Alerion 28 Sailor/owner) friend asked me why I'm using such a heavy line. He actually recommended 3/8" line, which I thought would be too light and "slippy" in the hand. So I cut it down the middle and chose 7/16". Based on the working load of the brand I purchased, 25kt w/s is the recommended safe load for the sail I currently have. I would reduce sail a before 25 anyway, and I think it'll be a great fit for the 135.
The 135 will have a foam luff, it'll be the first sail I ever owned that to have it so it will be interesting to see how it performs when I reef the genny.

"Sub" Ed

Sea Haven

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 01:31:24 PM »
Been busy myself these past few weeks!

Final report on the "great" Sail purchase.............

Pulled the trigger on the Mack Quote.
Got an extra 5% off because another 323 owner here purchased the same together.

Main - Full Battens W/ 2 Reefs:7.62 oz Challenge High
Aspect Premium Dacron W/ adjustable battslide
fittings. Slides on foot
Pearson Logo w/"323" and hull number "#124"
Jib/Genoa Miter Cut
135% W/Cover&Foam:6.77 oz Challenge
Marblehead Premium Dacron with Sunbrella cover and luff foam
MACK PACK semi-automatic mainsail cover and lazy jack combination.
Free shipping, no tax, all for less than $5k

All other quotes were above $5.1k (show price) for just the sails BEFORE shipping, standard battens, "loose" footed, no luff foam.
Hood and North. NEVER heard from Doyle or Sperry.

As an aside, went with "Persian Green" for the sunbrella as a shift away from the dark "Captain Navy"

Budgeting new dodger to match.

Now what to paint the Cabin stripe? lol

Have been dealing with a charging issue....time to upgrade the Alternator to match the increased battery capacity!!!

With all this and what I've done this season I have a "virtually" new boat lol!!

"Sub" Ed




« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 03:03:56 PM by Sea Haven »

slacker

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2014, 08:31:01 AM »
That's great to hear about the sails. We just a got a quote from Travis with Mack for the same main. We're going to get the Mack Pack too. Looks like they'll be making a few of the same sails. Are you going to do the install yourself? Doesn't look to be too bad. look forward to hearing more about your experience.

Sea Haven

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 03:18:40 PM »
Yes I am.
Hauling her the 22nd. So I'm sending my measurements then. I'm in no rush after that.

I'll probably wait til it gets warm anyway as I remove the sails when she's on the hard anyway.

slacker

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 04:30:37 PM »
Ordered the sail and the Mack Pack today. We're headed to the Bahamas next month and Tim said that they should be ready by then. Can't wait to finally put some decent canvas on the boat.

Dolce_Vita

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 11:29:55 PM »
I was at the Annapolis Sailboat Show yesterday, and the Mack Pack booth caught my eye.  The demonstrator explained some of the points that distinguish their system from others, particularly the fact that the lazy jacks attach to the boom instead of to the cover.

It looks like a really nice system!

@(^.^)@  Ed
1977 P-323 #42 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Sea Haven

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 01:08:09 PM »
Ed,

Yeah, it looks to be a great system.

In fact I wasn't even thinking about it when I was at the booth, being so focused on the sails themselves. It wasn't until after I got home and stumbled across it online that it occurred that I should look into it.
I don't have lazy jacks now and it appears the PO never had as well so I was planning to go with Harken or design my own, then I saw the Mack Packer.

After I saw the $$ savings by going with Mack, it became a no-brainer!

I'll give a report in the spring when up and running.

What's you thoughts on their sails? Quality etc...

"Sub" Ed

Alma

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Re: 44th Annual Newport International Boat Show
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 05:23:59 PM »
Re: Lazy Jacks, Dutchman and others.

I have a North mainsail. I bought it new from Cruising Direct maybe eight years ago. I did the measuring and screwed it up only a little bit.
North fixed it for free and it is a great sail.

I WISH I had ordered a bigger roach and North recommended it, but I was afraid of chafing the leach on the topping lift.

Today I remove my topping lift while sailing. Crossing the backstay while tacking shouldn't be a problem. If this North mainsail would ever wear- I'd replace it with a big roach mainsail from Noth again. I'm that pleased. I bought a Genoa from a local sailmaker upon recommendation of a great sailor and their service was terrible. 'Suncover failed in two seasons and it was almost FIVE hundred dollars to replace. Needless to say I was disappointed...

Ever since day one I have faked the North mainsail sail the same exact way. In fact I wrote with a sharpie pen "top" on the first fold at the luff so I know I have it on the right track.
If I'm single-handed my autopilot keeps me into the wind.
There is no worry about folding the sail along the same folds every time. My sail is still crispy and fast today.

I fold at the first slug to the port side of the boom, then alternate back and forth at each slug. I pull the folds back as I go along and tie off with just two sail ties.
Now that the sail is "trained", and this happened over the first season, it wants to fall correctly on the boom and almost folds itself. It takes less than 40 seconds to drop the main!
The tell-tails line up down the center and it looks great.
It is shipshape and tight, so much so the sail cover seems oversize. When time to remove the sail for winter storage it is intact and compact.
I can remove it folded and it goes right into its bag with the same folds it had on the boom- Come Spring commissioning the mainsail glides right back onto the boom!

I have seen plenty of swearing at Dutchmen and Lazy Jacks from other sailors. And the adaptations to the sail cover are complex and wear out quickly.

When you're luck enough to have a brand new mainsail try this trick. It has worked very well for me.