return on renovation

[Knosaj]

hello all. I was not aware this forum existed. this is great and thanks!

anyway i am hoping someone can give me some advice. In short, we have, and are considering some major work on the boat. my question is can i expect to recoupe the money at sale. I realize that boats are not a place to invest money, but, we would like to at least see some of it back and wondering how much we might expect to see.

about a year or two ago we purchased a 323 in REALLY good shape. the insides have been very well maintained, and except for seat fabric is all original and in very good shape. the hull is in great shape (excluding the blisters below the waterline) we have had mixed advice on if we should repair these or not. there are probably an average of 5-10 per sq ft. !!!

sails are in pretty good shape. all sunbrella is in new condition and all teak is maintained.

after having the boat about 5 days the orginal volvo gave up. we replaced that one with a new volvo.

thinking of having the hull and topsides, with mast, painted.

so:
boat: 32k
engine: 12k
paint hull and topsides: guessing 10-15k
repair blisters: rough estimate 5-10k

so at this point we have a solid 44k in the boat and considering throwing another 5-20k into it.  If we did, this would be one top notch 323! but, would it be a 60k 323? that seems to be a bit out of the park, but maybe not, i dont know.

end the end, what might we expect to see on return? how much is a very nice 323 going for?

we have no plans of saling the boat, but i dont want to throw money away either. the boat is in great shape as it is now.

thanks all! i look forward to browsing the forums here.

[selene]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the engine!

The only thing I can suggest for solid data is to look at the prices in Yachtworld, or perhaps chat to a broker to see if he is willing to get you some comparatives/a listing of recent sales.

In my research, top-condition P323 are being offered around $30K, perhaps slightly higher.  I have never seen one above $34K.  I am not actively searching, so my data may be out of date. With the weak economy, sales tend to be ~20% below the asking price.  Also most boats seem to be listing for 8-12 months plus before they sell.

From what I saw, a lot depends upon location.

Remember, if you want to repaint the mast, that means pulling the mast; if that has not been done recently, it will be a good time to check standing rigging (maybe re-rig), check chainplates, maybe upgrade lighting.

Without having seen your boat:
Original fabric, sails usable not new, blisters, new engine...unclear how recently standing rigging replaced...maybe list at $27K? 
Fix blisters, repaint...maybe list at $30K?

[Knosaj]

That's not what I wanted to hear. Lol

The interior fabric is new.
Standing rigging is not original. It was Replaced and beefed up at some point. It was looked at by the surveyor at the time of inspection. I doubt if he went over rigging with a fine tooth comb like a rigger would.
Man, this is one of the best boats I've seen for its age. It's disappointing to think that the best we could get is low 30s. Especially since it has a brand new Volvo in It.

I'm not sure fixing blisters would benefit us any. Surveyors have said that they are not a big deal and for practical purposes fixing them doesn't nessassarily mean a better hull. Plus throwing another 5k+ at the boat will only put us further in the whole.

Anyway, we are not looking to sale, I just wanted to get some thoughts before putting more $ into it.

Thanks

[Dulcinea]

Man, that's tough luck and a good learning experience for the rest of us.  When buying a boat, you have to have not only the boat, but the engine surveyed.  Sometimes (often) that's two different surveyors.  I'm in the process of repowering mine as we speak. In my opinion, what you originally paid for the boat would/should represent a price for the vessel where everything you're talking about doing has already been done.  Right now (at 44K) you're upside down to the tune of about 15-20K.  Everything else you do is digging a deeper hole.  Certainly pulling the mast is going to be $$ and will uncover issues that need to be dealt with, i.e. chain plate, mast step, rigging, etc.  I agree with Selene, with the new engine maybe you could get 30K.  Personally I would deal with the blisters.  If you're handy and can follow instructions, it's not a complicated job and the price is just for the materials (<$150). 
Dulcinea

[Chelsea]

I toss my two cents in for the blister repair.. It isn't a difficult job to sand, clean and re-glass the blister areas.  Talk to the local boatyard.  Most of the time they will tutor you or there will be a seminar on hull repair by West Systems or another manufacturer.  I have had good luck at the Strictly Sail Show in Chicago meeting with Reps from material makers about how to use the products.  West Systems also has good publications on using their glass products. 
On the survey note: I had two done as we purchased Chelsea last year.  One on the boat itself and the second by the yard mechanic on the Atomic 4.  The mechanic was on my payroll at the time, had no interest in boat but knew it's history at the yard and did a great job.  We left the marina where purchased (private seller) and sailed her 160 miles with half under motor power and 15 knot head winds,  Used no oil (had sat for two years), purred like a cat and went strong into the head winds.  She's a Great Old Boat... not just a "Good Old Boat" !